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Unread 01-12-2013, 18:06   #81
berneyarms
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I find it difficult to believe that it was deliberately sent out as a four piece.

Maybe the three piece set that was to go with it failed?
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Unread 01-12-2013, 18:35   #82
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I've never understood the need for the 1600 to Sligo - would it not make a bit more sense to run it to Longford and have the 1805 go all the way?
I seem to recall some fairly sensible timetable change getting torpedoed by the reaction of "chained officials" in Longford. Can't simply assume that sensible wins out! Would have to look at effects on crew rosters too.
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Unread 01-12-2013, 20:25   #83
James Howard
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It sounds as if it was a failure of the 3-piece as they have 7 cars scheduled for that service every evening I've been on it recently. But still, it would make sense to have some sort of contingency in place for that service on a Friday at least. There are long-term implications with this level of overcrowding.

People will generally put up with it once but if you end up standing to Longford twice, that would drive a lot of regular users to the bus.

I know that the loadings on the morning service I always take are a lot lower. Before the capacity changes, I would be sharing a bay of 4 seats from Mullingar with one or two other people. Now I end up sharing at Enfield sometimes or Kilcock most of the time. I had a bay to myself all the way one day last week.
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Unread 01-12-2013, 21:57   #84
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It sounds as if it was a failure of the 3-piece as they have 7 cars scheduled for that service every evening I've been on it recently. But still, it would make sense to have some sort of contingency in place for that service on a Friday at least. There are long-term implications with this level of overcrowding.

People will generally put up with it once but if you end up standing to Longford twice, that would drive a lot of regular users to the bus.

I know that the loadings on the morning service I always take are a lot lower. Before the capacity changes, I would be sharing a bay of 4 seats from Mullingar with one or two other people. Now I end up sharing at Enfield sometimes or Kilcock most of the time. I had a bay to myself all the way one day last week.
Train failure or was it used as part of an earlier service...

18.05 from Waterford is still lumbered with a 4 piece, people standing from Kilkenny and to top tings off seats were reduced from 265 to 234 as it was a first class set and for the second week they didn't bother turning on the reservations until Thomastown this week, Kilkenny last week. I'm sure some of the passengers were happy to see the arrival of the guards at Carlow to remove some passengers who were standing causing problems to others.

They might as well do away with the catering trolly on services as its just a waste of money seen as it can only do a quick run through at the start of the journey.

4 piece trains are very misleading to passengers as half them don't have a clue the train size is reduced.

Just wait until the last few 6 piece sets disappear, then the problems will start.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 01-12-2013 at 22:55.
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Unread 01-12-2013, 22:50   #85
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Originally Posted by berneyarms View Post
Thanks!

Nine piece sets cannot be accommodated on Sligo. Seven piece is the limit.

I imagine that the 15:05 has been strengthened to a seven piece due to the high student loading - hence this one is a six piece.

Lets be honest - that train is no shorter than it was anytime last year.
Yes a four coach set. Apologies this is the first chance I've had to report back.
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Unread 04-12-2013, 13:26   #86
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07,50 from Waterford was standing room only from Kilkenny today, the 07.40 from Limerick called at Kildare to pick passengers who usually get the 07.50 but ease the problem. They also had a bus transfer for those standing from Athy.

Give that IE would of know well in advance that heavy loadings were expected they should of provided the capacity to match it.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 04-12-2013 at 16:17.
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Unread 04-12-2013, 14:47   #87
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07,50 from Waterford was standing room only from Kilkenny today, the 07.40 from Limerick called at Kildare to pick passengers who usually get the 07.50 but ease the problem.

Give that IE would of know well in advance that heavy loadings were expected they should of provided the capacity to match it.
Shouldn't this be in the Waterford line forum?
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Unread 04-12-2013, 15:08   #88
James Howard
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Same problem - different line. Perhaps the thread should be moved to general "Intercity and Regional"
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Unread 11-12-2013, 11:21   #89
James Howard
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Perhaps something will come of this

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/polit...ains-1.1623701
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Unread 11-12-2013, 14:56   #90
Mark Gleeson
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RSC routinely inspect trains regardless.

As there is no provision, contract clause or legal requirement concerning overcrowding it all means nothing.

Just remember it was the minister for transport who proposed and voted for the cut in subsidy
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Unread 11-12-2013, 17:19   #91
James Howard
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I agree that safety issue is irrelevant and is generally used a proxy by most people for the real issue which is discomfort. My reason for posting the article is that nothing happens in this country without politicians getting involved. You can do all the complaining to Irish Rail and talking to Joe that you want but once the minister starts getting an earful in the Dáil bar, things change. As a matter of interest, is there an official Rail Users Ireland campaign this overcrowding issue or is it not a matter of concern?

But the madness is that is almost impossible for this cutback to actually save any money. They are talking about a proposed saving of around 3 million which is less than 2% of Irish Rail's annual budget. While I'm not counting passengers on my morning train, I would have to guess that it has to be down something like 20%. They successfully drove away a significant portion of the traffic in the couple of weeks of 4-car operation of this train so it is really comfortable now. There is absolutely no way they can have driven away less than 2% of the revenue on the Sligo line even allowing for the free passes.

The real issue for me and for other long-distance commuters (I can't claim to to speak for anybody else) is the level of discomfort in the return to 29k service for the 1805 to Longford. Most of the people I know (generally the lifers) that are commuting from Edgeworthstown are now avoiding this service. We are still taking trains but now we are taking seats on the 1705 or the 1905 that could be generating walk-up revenue.

The irony of it is that they haven't even reduced the service very much on the Sligo line. They have reduced the number of cars running the evening service to Sligo by 1 and the number to Longford by 2 but have switched from 22Ks to 29Ks. I don't know the technical details, but it seems likely that running 29Ks flat out on rural lines costs more than running 22Ks at a comfortable speed. They are also fighting a losing PR battle where people are blaming Irish Rail cutbacks for the overcrowding on the Friday 1705 which has actually increased but was always an extremely busy service.

We have people in the office who have been commuting by DART for years on taxsaver tickets going back to the car because of the overcrowding, we have others on the Northern line finding that their needs are better met by the bus - the fact is this change is losing them revenue.
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Unread 11-12-2013, 19:17   #92
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I would imagine they are saving money running a 4pce 29k -v- a 6pce 22k to/from Longford. Bear in mind that the line speed is no more than the top speed of a 29k at any point.

I understand your frustration about the 29k, but I think we are pretty much at the point where service cuts are the next option. Personally I'd prefer to see the service maintained in some form rather than cut.

I would imagine that IE's financial forecasts built in a drop in passengers as a result of the fare increases, but which would be more than countered by the increased revenue from the increases themselves.

I think people need to become far more intelligent in terms of asking questions of the government parties - asking how they expect existing service levels to be maintained despite repeated PSO subsidy cuts, rather than asking about overcrowding. Asking the latter question allows the politicians to get away with the stock answer of "That's an operational matter for the railway company".

Really we (the public) have been shielded pretty much from the effects of the cuts in exchequer funding (other than fare increases). Only now are the austerity effects really beginning to bite in earnest.

Last edited by berneyarms : 11-12-2013 at 19:28.
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Unread 12-12-2013, 02:16   #93
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
Just remember it was the minister for transport who proposed and voted for the cut in subsidy
What are the chances of it being reversed to allow capacity be restored and to stop doing more harm which could severely damage IE a lot longer than 1 year.

Quote:
I would imagine that IE's financial forecasts built in a drop in passengers as a result of the fare increases, but which would be more than countered by the increased revenue from the increases themselves.
They cannot possibly be able to forecast the loss of numbers across the network as a result of these changes. Without the capacity changes it will still of being very tricky to forecast this year given the very big increases on all public transport.
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Unread 12-12-2013, 08:54   #94
James Howard
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They would have gotten money from fare increases whether or not the cut back the service levels. The problem this year was the double-whammy of service cutbacks and fare increases in the same week. Each on their own is a problem but it is utter lunacy to implement both in the same week - not least because they lose the ability to separate out the effects of both items. To me, there is no doubt that Irish Rail are doing themselves long-term harm with these cutbacks - they are talking about saving 1.5% of their annual budget and there is no way that they can have inflicted less damage to their revenue than this.

Also, we already have had service cuts on the Longford service - we lost two services per day each way last year although they were pretty useless services so it affected very few people. But what they have done this year is far worse as they have effectively made the prime-time evening commuter train unusable. If Irish Rail senior management had to spend 10 or 20 hours per week on a 29k, they would change their tune pretty quickly.

Personally I am faced with a choice now between two comfortable trains which are persistently 15 minutes late every day or one that is so uncomfortable that by the end of the week I just want to go to bed when I get home. I am lucky in that my employer is happy for me to operate on a leave early one day, late the next basis but I would still rather not be getting home after 9PM two evenings a week.

The worst thing about this is that when I started commuting 9 years ago, we had a Mark 2 at 1810 and it was timetabled 5 minutes faster than the current 1805 and had at least as good a punctuality record. It was also more comfortable than anything currently offered. And now after having sunk hundreds of millions into the railway we are back to the noise and discomfort of the 29k. It would have been better if they hadn't spent any of it.
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Unread 16-12-2013, 20:30   #95
Jamie2k9
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Appears that all First Class sets are going to be 5 piece sets instead of 4.

http://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com...2013/i-f7XLBm5

Should help a lot of problems.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 16-12-2013 at 20:35.
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Unread 16-12-2013, 20:38   #96
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That I think was the original plan, not much use to the Sligo line as they won't send a first class set there
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Unread 16-12-2013, 20:46   #97
Jamie2k9
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That I think was the original plan, not much use to the Sligo line as they won't send a first class set there
Nobody uses FC expect for Tralee, they will have to do away with it if they don't want to be running extra coaches. There has being the odd FC set on Sligo line but probably down to mistakes.

Having more 3 sets around was badly needed.
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Unread 16-12-2013, 22:24   #98
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That I think was the original plan, not much use to the Sligo line as they won't send a first class set there
No, but it will mean that there will be more 3 piece sets available which may help with strengthening certain peak services.
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Unread 17-12-2013, 09:31   #99
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FC sets are worse than useless for the Sligo line as it they will only operate a trolley so you've just lost even more space from a car without any benefit. I guess you get another 50 or 60 seats over a non FC 4-car set. But I guess that at least they are showing some sense in retaining them in 5-car units as they take too much of a bite out of a 4-car set and there is no point in running them in 4+3 units given that half the train can't get to the buffet.

I think they could solve a lot of problems on Sligo by adding another 3-car unit onto it - particularly on a Friday. I was on the 1905 last Friday and it was manic - there were a few people still standing at Edgeworthstown. They could probably resolve a lot of difficulties by running a service to Longford at 2005 or even 2105 which would be of great benefit to commuters and would take some of the pressure off the earlier trains. Personally, I could live with it being a 29k as I would have had a few jars any time I would use it and so wouldn't mind.

Irish Rail seem to be of a mindset of treating the Friday rush towards Sligo as problem rather than an opportunity to make money. Any private operator faced with the same situation would be putting extra services on to try to grow demand further. Particularly with later services, they have the assets sitting idle in Dublin
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Unread 17-12-2013, 10:03   #100
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I agree
The 1905 is always jammed
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