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Unread 07-03-2014, 09:15   #1
AD11
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Default Anti Social Scumbags

3 guys broke windows on 6.14 (Mullingar) service this morning leaving us delayed overall by an hour more or less after being 'stranded' around Leixlip.

2 of them tried forcing a door open after pulling emergency switch. If they had managed to get it open at the time they would have been picking pieces of them off a train going in the opposite direction.

As it was they moved on to another carriage and according to twitter / newspaper reports they smashed windows and escaped on to the tracks with the Gardai in hot pursuit.

I got out of bed at 5.20 for this - things can only get better
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Unread 07-03-2014, 09:38   #2
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Strange time of the day for scumbags to be about but I guess that train leaves Longford early enough for people on an all-night bender. There really is a need for some kind of staff presence on trains. What if this were an 8-car 29k unit - there is no staff at all on the back half of the train.

If you were injured or had a laptop smashed in an incident like this would Irish Rail be judged as having failed in their Duty of Care to customers?
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Unread 07-03-2014, 10:16   #3
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The newspaper report below has more information.

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-n...-30071544.html

Not sure about what any staff member could do in those circumstances without backup. They were high on drugs according to the report above.

Utterly bizarre incident - very scary for anyone onboard the train.
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Unread 07-03-2014, 10:16   #4
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Indeed, it's definitely the earliest I've ever seen this sort of thing and like yourself JH I've been commuting a fair long while. Lets hope it's not the start of a new trend.
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Unread 07-03-2014, 10:54   #5
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I wouldn't expect any staff member to intervene given the risks to personal safety, but they certainly would have seen the situation developing and been able to alert the guards so they could have been waiting at a station. The problem is that with no Irish Rail presence on the train, situations like this tend to develop unobserved until they get out of hand.

I am really glad I wasn't on that train. Fair dues to Irish Rail for handling the disruption though - the Times is saying the train was only 35 minutes late which is not bad considering. It does sounds especially bizarre that the third guy completed his journey.
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Unread 07-03-2014, 12:11   #6
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I see over on the Irish Independent website that the keyboard warriors were out in full force as to what they would and wouldnt have done to them lads if they had been on the train.

In reality they would have done like everyone else - watch on in stunned silence as 2 of the morons tried to force open the door by kicking it and then repeatedly tried to smash the glass in the door with the emergency hammer.

It appears they were more 'successful' in another carriage where they broke through window or windows? Now, that must have been really upsetting / scary for passengers in that carriage.
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Unread 07-03-2014, 14:57   #7
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Circumstances this morning were beyond crazy.

On train staff would have not intervened on safety grounds. When any of the emergency handles are pulled or the glass hammer is removed from its case the driver gets an alarm and the exact location on the train computer, driver has CCTV which will automatically pull up the camera nearest the incident.

Driver has a choice when the emergency handle is pulled, either to stop or to continue by pressing a button within 5 seconds. Clearly given the CCTV with broken windows stopping is the best option. If the door release was pulled the brakes apply, that's probably why the train stopped outside station. That said policy if gardai are needed is delay arrival at the platform until support has arrived.

Reality is the two scumbags this morning got bail this afternoon so are free to cause more trouble this evening
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Unread 07-03-2014, 15:55   #8
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I just hope they are not using the other side of their return ticket on my way home this evening

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Unread 07-03-2014, 16:12   #9
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I don't like making assumptions but odds are no ticket to start with

What odds a RPU offical appeared onboard and they tried to leg it?
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Unread 07-03-2014, 16:17   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
I don't like making assumptions but odds are no ticket to start with

What odds a RPU offical appeared onboard and they tried to leg it?
Ah no they would prefer to be obnoxious to the ordinary passenger.
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Unread 07-03-2014, 16:19   #11
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I dont think there was any RPU officials involved. Certainly were not on the scene when they were hacking away at the door anyway.

I doubt if it was anything to do with a ticket either.
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Unread 07-03-2014, 18:05   #12
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Where did they board the train? Maynooth or Leixlip?
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Unread 07-03-2014, 19:36   #13
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Train had CCTV so that can be determined easily.

The big question of the day is how the 2 that got arrested got bail. We are talking about 2 people who caused total chaos and whose actions could have very easily resulted in their own death or death of other passengers

Transport Act 1950, section 59(1) A person who trespasses on any of the railways of or worked by the Board is guilty of an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding €1,000.”

The whole of Part 12 of the Rail Safety Act 2005,
(a) on conviction on indictment, to a fine not exceeding €100,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or to both,

Odds are we can throw in fare evasion as well and a whole stack of bye law offences.

No matter how many times we ask for a transport police we are wasting our time if the courts system will hand out bail. While there is an assumption of innocent till proven guilty, its hard to deny the charges given the arrest took place on the railway.
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Unread 07-03-2014, 21:52   #14
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And thanks to yesterday's Supreme Court ruling (courtesy of the ECHR) the little sh*ts cannot even be be questioned until they have a solicitor present.

Why are human rights always the rights of someone other than law abiding and terrorised citizens?
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Unread 08-03-2014, 08:51   #15
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If anyone witnessed the events, please contact the investigating gardaí.
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And thanks to yesterday's Supreme Court ruling (courtesy of the ECHR) the little sh*ts cannot even be be questioned until they have a solicitor present.
Without wanting to get into a legal discussion, this isn't quite the decision. I understand it has implications for evidence gained before one gets legal advice. I don't think there is any entitlement to have the solicitor present for the duration of all questioning.
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Unread 08-03-2014, 14:22   #16
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Shannonside (local radio) coverage:

http://www.shannonside.ie/news/two-charged-with-criminal-damage-after-train-incident/


http://www.shannonside.ie/news/early...ble-broke-out/


I feel for the ordinary passengers who were onboard the train.

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Unread 08-03-2014, 16:51   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colm Moore View Post
If anyone witnessed the events, please contact the investigating gardaí.Without wanting to get into a legal discussion, this isn't quite the decision. I understand it has implications for evidence gained before one gets legal advice. I don't think there is any entitlement to have the solicitor present for the duration of all questioning.
That is correct, but any competent solicitor will advise their client not to answer questions or make any statement.
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Unread 08-03-2014, 21:32   #18
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The full force of the law should be enforced without any discretion to these scumbags. Brings back the argument about having transport police within our network.

Getting bail is a joke, incredible.

Was it a 22k or 29k set?
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Unread 09-03-2014, 13:44   #19
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There are only a few clearly defined reasons for bail being denied. These are that the defendant is likely to abscond while on bail, that the defendant is likely to interfere with witnesses or jurors, that the defendant was already on bail when the crime was committed or that a Garda superintendent believes that the defendant is like to commit another crime while on bail.

The last provision is used relatively rarely but if none of these conditions are met the defendant has to be offered bail. The fact is that prisons are already full of people who have been convicted of crimes. The reality is that to remand somebody who is technically innocent until proven guilty is going to require a convicted criminal to be let out on temporary release to make space.

The real issue is about how long it takes the wheels of justice to turn. It will probably be several months before this case comes up and even when it does, if the individuals have no previous record (I won't comment on the likelihood of this), they will probably get away with a short sentence or community service. As somebody who has been up for jury service a couple of times, from my observation the entire process is a bit of a joke and a tremendous waste of a hell of a lot of both peoples time and public money.

On the issue of transport police, I can't see that this service would have been assigned any protection as it would have been regarded as a low-risk service. I think it would be more reasonable to expect that there should be a ticket collector on most if not all services to keep an eye on things. This would be especially the case for outer commuter services given that most of the stations have no ticket barriers so the level of fare evasion is sufficient that a ticket collector would be self-financing. I would say personally that I move carriage three or four times a year where there is a particular level of anti-social behaviour going on and I would rather complete my journey in peace and quiet. It wouldn't really occur to me to ring anyone about it as I don't want to get involved and get beaten up or have my laptop smashed for my trouble and there would rarely be any staff on the train to back me up.
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Unread 10-03-2014, 08:47   #20
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I was on the 17.20pm train from Heuston to Portlaoise on Friday evening when two windows were smashed in the carriage by scumbags throwing stones at Clondalkin. Certainly I would prefer to see Transport Police rather than those private security (Brinks) who have only the same powers of arrest as you or I on our transport system.

Last edited by grainne whale : 10-03-2014 at 08:53.
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