Rail & Sail

[Mark Gleeson]

But at least in the UK the train would actually

1. Travel at a sustained speed in excess of 100mph, best enterprise can manage is 90mph, Cork well 100mph if lucky

2. It would be on time, enterprise is notorious for delays. It got to a point where there are three different timetables all valid with different times. Cork the timetable is so padded god only knows when you actually arrive.

3. UK staff understand customer service, Irish Rail staff in the majority don't care. Funny isn't that 3 of the 4 managers at the senior operational level are from where? They are all ex BR men

Irish fares in the majority are not comparable in service level terms

Upside well at least IE buy decent hardware our Mk4 may be shaky but its so much better than the rather horrible Pendolino and the new intercity railcars will make the voyagers look quite poor.

[91101_GNER]

I don't know if its because I know the UK "system" inside and out, from tickets and fares, discount rates (everything from Young Persons Railcards, Family Railcards, to Staff Privildege "Priv" cards) to how the industry is structured as a business, and as a proposition to passengers.

My railway interest is in the business and operational aspects rather than rolling stock and traction.

One thing that immediately comes to mind which is a sharp contrast is that of clarity of information, I book a ticket in the UK, and I can find out all of the restrictions and conditions that apply to that ticket. When I did it on IE's website, it had general conditions of carriage, but there wasn't a lot else that was clear.

Our journey planner, which ATOC run at www.nationalrail.co.uk is more seamless than IE's website, and there is a greater degree on information abotu the onboard catering offer than I've found on IE's website thus far.

IE don't seem to be on a relentlesss push to force their passengers into advance purchase tickets, and fares are much more affordable. For me to go to London from Newcastle it's £200 return for an open (well for me its acoutally about £50, but the average Joe on the street its over £200).

We also have 24hour train information, live with a real person through 08457484950. It's not perfect but its a very, very good service.

[Mark Gleeson]

Rail and Sail are sold under the international CIV rules so the IE terms and conditions don't actually apply

The rule book is hidden from public view lest the public use it to their advantage http://www.platform11.org/resources/...riage_2004.pdf

[Ronald Binge]

I'm well familiar with CIE's interpretation of the Sail Rail rules. Since the early 1980s I've travelled most years from Dublin to London via Dun Laoghaire and Holyhead, and like the paper coupon tickets nothing has really changed regarding ticketing.

CIE in Middle Abbey Street will not sell you a through ticket from Dublin to London, simply from Dun Laoghaire to London.

I've argued the point with them that you can buy tickets in London Euston through to Dublin valid on the DART but to no avail. Instead, prior to my becoming an annual rail and Luas commuter they sold me a day rambler instead.

A bit mad.

[ThomasJ]

Hi folks, sorry to drag this thread back up but I am attending a football match in wembley on sunday and am travelling from London Euston back to Dublin Ferryport via crewe and the 02:40 Irish ferries sailing,

Has anyone any suggestions?

[Traincustomer]

According to Irish Ferries current (2009) SailRail leaflet (available from them and travel agents or as a PDF on their website) the times are Depart London Euston 2010 and change at Chester (depart there 2256) arriving Caergybi(Holyhead) 0111. This is marked as the connecting train for the 0240 Cruise Ferry departure. This sailing is usually highly reliable as it's operated by the MV Ulysses. Have a good trip.
PS: I suggest checking these times with www.nationalrail.co.uk in case of any engineering work/bus transfers on any part of the route. Or e-mail Irish Ferries at sailrail@irishferries.com
You probably know there's a Dublin Bus service which meets the ferry. Fare €2.50. All the best

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Cavanrailbus

According to Irish Ferries current (2009) SailRail leaflet (available from them and travel agents or as a PDF on their website) the times are Depart London Euston 2010 and change at Chester (depart there 2256) arriving Caergybi(Holyhead) 0111. This is marked as the connecting train for the 0240 Cruise Ferry departure. This sailing is usually highly reliable as it's operated by the MV Ulysses. Have a good trip.
PS: I suggest checking these times with www.nationalrail.co.uk in case of any engineering work/bus transfers on any part of the route. Or e-mail Irish Ferries at sailrail@irishferries.com
You probably know there's a Dublin Bus service which meets the ferry. Fare €2.50. All the best

Thanks for the information! I appreciate it!

[ThomasJ]

, It all went to plan on the way with the flight and the tube connection to wembley with the 15-20 was in wembley with 30-40 minutes to spare! grand!

Coming back from London last night/overnight, Stayed for the extra time and penalties! with the long walk back to wembley park station and two tubes to take to euston square and a 2-3 minute to euston station i arrived at euston with 5 minutes to spare train started boarding and i wwas only getting my sailrail ticket! arrived to the gates being shut and if i hadnt have told the guard i was making a connection to dublin i wasnt getting on that train!

got to crewe on time for the holyhead connection arrived just before 1 in holyhead and left on time from holyhead sleeping soundly through the journey and got back into dublin for 6 and bus connection into aston quay arr 6.30
preparing for work now!

Not going to talk about the match or result

[Traincustomer]

Just saw your post today as I haven't looked at the Forum much recently.Glad your trip went ok.

[ThomasJ]

I have to say have been taking a few trips over by boat over the last few weeks and heres how I faired:

Prices for foot passengers connections
Irish Ferries & onward connection to manchester around €75
Stena line & bus eireann to manchester €72
Norfolk line €140 Dublin Liverpool (and that didn't even include Liverpool-Manchester!

Getting/buying tickets:
Irish Ferries & Rail - No bother, got from Connolly station!

Stena Line & BE - Could only get a single from busaras their allocation were sold out! got the return leg from the coach station.

Norfolk line- Website fares are cheaper, phone onsite purchasing sets you back with a €25 booking fee on top of things! My experience was the tickets were sold out but I found out only the cabins were! The cabins were default at 1 and read-only on the page and i had to go to the next day change this to 0 and go back to the day i wished to book. It then told me I had to select a cabin even though i said "0" cabins. There was no option of n/a and because of this I couldn't book the trip! So I had to book at the port (phone bookings were closed!) Total price premium fare, (you had no other choice for the evening sailing but the evening and breakfast meal were included!) €140

On-board experience

Irish Ferries & rail- No problems on the train, virgin express had a shop on board and flew in change at chester arriva trains in wales hadn't but boy did it fly! i felt like we were taking off it was at the top speed alot. Irish ferries was grand had breakfast (at that hour of the morning! yes) slept in the bar area- alot of cowches and reclining seats as well upstairs- brilliant! bar and shop stayed open throughout the trip until the end!

Bus eireann/national express & stenaline- No problem here either. The bus trip took about 5 hours (because of stops etc) but had a great sleep on the coach (wasn't the same coach all the way, private operator to holyhead, then change to bus eireann) The ship was more or less the same as irish ferries but more or offer food wise etc. Pity you cant take the overnight stena ferry with the rail option. it doesnt take foot passengers.

Norfolk line- As a foot passenger, I hated it! There were 3 foot passengers in total! On board the shop was a small area beside the front desk and there was no bureau de change was explained that norfolkline havent a licence to operate the cash. the resturaunt opened for the evening for an hour or two the meal was ok not great. Everything shut down by about 11:30-12:00. jsut slept on the couch. We were called for breakfast around 5 were late getting into birkenhead because of the space/allocation issues got in at around 6-6.30. In at birkenhead port £15 between the 3 of us £10 for a ticket Liverpool-manchester. even though I had the return ticket I chose not to return that way go by coach instead! I wont be going that way in future!

My recommendations would sail and rail or coach and sail with irish ferries or stena line with rail/bus connections

[plant43]

Planning Dublin-Holyhead-Portsmouth in September. Does anyone know if Sail & Rail is subsidised in any way? It's a wonder how it can be so cheap.

[ThomasJ]

i was actually wondering that myself! Its great value.

Going to england and scotland a few times in the coming months/year and it will be my preferred option!

Am looking forward to travelling to Edinburgh (via belfast-stranraer) soon!

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by plant43

Planning Dublin-Holyhead-Portsmouth in September. Does anyone know if Sail & Rail is subsidised in any way? It's a wonder how it can be so cheap.

I think its down to whatever historical agreements were there with Stena and British Rail.

[Eddie]

It's cheap relative to a walk-on flight fare, but not to a well-planned one.

From memory, there were no single fares before 2004 and Rail & Sail would have been competitive only if bought as a return fare. Trouble is, with fewer fast ferry sailings out of Dublin / Dun Laoghaire, finding appropriate sailings to both leave and arrive at your destination at the time of your choosing and without a long wait in Holyhead in both directions is difficult. So for practical reasons, maybe some Rail & Sail passengers get a single and come back by air.

Bring back an early morning sailing from Dublin / Dun Laoghaire and a later evening one from Holyhead!

[Sealink]

www.raileasy.co.uk sells RailSail tickets and also book passage on the relevent ferry when required (usually prebooking only applies to the Irish Ferries "Swift" and Stena fast craft). They do charge a booking fee, and a credit card fee, but I believe they will post tickets (they certainly have a list of countries showing in the address field)

[ThomasJ]

any thoughts on making this thread a sticky (and maybe have the first post as important information) for the duration of the disruption

trying to find this information on the irish rail website is like trying to find a needle in a haystack

[dowlingm]

might be worth putting an alert on railusers.ie front page too.

[Mark Gleeson]

IE are not selling currently, must go to ferry companies direct who are up to their neck in bookings

Rail capacity on the UK side is not able to cope currently with the numbers, even the small sea cat can take 560 passengers, HSS and Ulysses 1500 and 2000

[ThomasJ]

according to rte, stena line saying all foot passenger spaces for dun laoghaire route fully booked out for today and tomorrow.

[Mark Gleeson]

They don't have a proper gangway from the sea cat in DL you have to board via the car deck on foot!

If arriving by rail follow the sign for platform 3, (turn left as you pass through the turnstiles), down the stairs and use the rear exit to access the ferry terminal, saves a good few minutes as its not clear from the front entrance how to get to the ferry