Luas Strike Dates Announced

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

I'm not sure you can equate driving an eight coach train at 100mph and knowing exactly where to commence braking for example in the pitch black darkness for every station stop or future speed restriction with driving a tram at a maximum of 43mph.

Most train drivers will have a far more extensive route network to learn and memorise than any tram driver.

I think there is an arguable case that driving a LUAS is at least as demanding as driving a DART.

DART runs on an exclusive right of way on the authority of signals and the backup of automatic train protection.

In contrast Luas drivers must be ever vigilant for pedestrians and vehicles. Observance of signals is entirely dependent on the driver and the consequences of a mistake can be very immediate.

The speed of a LUAS tram is comparable to DART , the latter rarely exceeds 45 mph and averages less than 20 mph, not dramatically different to a LUAS.

[Eddie]

The Luas drivers can't seriously be expecting a 50% pay rise. Many of them will have been taken on in the depths of the recession, grateful for the job. It sounds appealing when someone tells you that you deserve to be paid the same as some other group, but a few days of lost pay and the strike will probably start to crumble.

Teachers (and other groups) who started employment in the last few years will be earning a lot less than those doing the same job who began earlier, but that's just the way it is, and as a cohort, they are less likely to be saddled with debt. Unemployment is still high enough for there to be plenty of others grateful for the Luas work.

Of course, the other side is are Irish Rail drivers paid too much? I imagine they will want the Luas strike to be over as quickly as possible, because it draws attention to them. Did I read somewhere it is €60k a year and a guaranteed public sector final salary scheme? There's plenty who'd be very happy with that.

[Mark Gleeson]

It should be noted, there was no recession at Transdev, an increase was paid out in the darkest days of the recession, no increases in CIE in years

I don't particularity think Irish Rail drivers are over or underpaid, but if Luas gets a large lump of an increase there will be a push to restore the pay gap with Irish Rail.

Luas staff will be lucky to get 1.5% a year which is a hell of lot more than what many have seen over the last 5 years.

SIPTU must be living on a different planet, Transdev is not going to pay out, it doesn't have the infinite CIE overdraft. Sustained strike action will result in a loss of 100k a day on Transdev and risk of contract termination by the NTA. You might end up with Irish Rail or Dublin Bus being asked to act as interim managers while a tender is issued

[Thomas J Stamp]

this is the thing, transdev are not CIE, they are a private company providing a service under a contract issued by the NTA. I assume that behind the trading name the contracts are between the NTA and a subsidiary company set up to run luas so there may be no question of saying its a multinational company with endless reserves of cash.

maybe SIPTU is misreading the figures, because there is no automatic correlation between increase in passenger numbers and profit for the company, i would have thought that they would have been better off looking for a form of inflation based index linked plus a percentage.

that said there is nothing that annoys me more than "they're lucky to have a job" and "there's plenty in the dole queues waiting to take their jobs" - just because there may be doesn't give n employer carte blance to run your employment rights into the ground or deny you the right to take perfectly legal action to resolve a grievance. that path leads to slave labour.

[Mark Gleeson]

For the record Luas is operated by Transdev Dublin Light Rail Limited, which is owned by its parent.

Transdev does have some control over its payments owing to the contract targets. So of the beat the performance targets they do get a limited financial benifit. So for example there is a carrot and stick thing for fare evasion, above a certain level penalty, below a certain level bonus

[ACustomer]

Looking at to-day's main newspapers, all they have are (a) shock-horror headlines about traffic chaos; (b) lots of special pleading from SIPTU guys; (c) no critical analysis of said SIPTU guys and (d) a few quotes from management.

There is no analysis of pay with other related jobs (DB), no analysis of the contractual relations between TransDev, NTA, etc. Nothing approaching the interesting and relevant contributions on this site.

The journos don't even have the energy to do a few elementary Google searches.

[Colm Moore]

This seems to be more about the election (and 'The Revolution') than a genuine negotiation for a pay increase.

While pay increases over the last 8 year might be modest, the cost of living is in the same place as then.

Train drivers wanted to be treated the same as airline pilots, tram drivers want to be treated the same as train drivers and there is a suggestion that bus drivers will lodge a pay claim to match tram drivers.

[Jamie2k9]

8 and 17 March are the next dates.

[Mark Gleeson]

Transdev are now at serious risk of contract termination through non performance.

I can see this dragging on and on and Transdev are not going to negotiate until SIPTU adopts a financially realistic position.

[Jamie2k9]

Transdev are now at serious risk of contract termination through non performance.

I can see this dragging on and on and Transdev are not going to negotiate until SIPTU adopts a financially realistic position.

It will really be 17 March before Transdev start to lose anything when you take the bonus/regular wage and balance it against fines.

I cannot see the contract been terminated at all, simple fact is if they terminate it they will find it difficult to get another company in to operate with such demands. The NTA know the consequences of for example letting CIE manage short term combined with the additional cost a new operator will demand to meet wage demands.

The sync in me think's SIPTU were expecting it to be resolved before the election and now that has not happened they have been forced to give another 3 weeks notice and once this week's over it will almost be forgotten it will become a non issue and they will have to be realistic at some point. Now they have opted for single days as they know next to nobody is on there side.

What would be the chances of unions agreeing to 3 week notice within CIE?

[Thomas J Stamp]

the problem with doing this during an election from SIPTU's point of view is that Transdev/NTA isnt CIE. the tactic of pressurising the minister to intervene either overtly or in the background isnt going to work.

choosing st patricks day and days of matches and so on also sounds grand on paper but it is 100% capable of severe backlash, with passengers going from innocent bystanders to deliberate victims of the striking workers.

[ACustomer]

On the day of the latest strike, the "paper of record" has a piece by the same journalist with a photo of the same SIPTU driver and the following headline: "Luas drivers say they have been grossly underpaid".

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...paid-1.2528698

Once again, no real analysis or pay comparisons, just a lot of hot air from drivers and passengers alike. Pathetic.

[Jamie2k9]

That is dated last Wednesday 10th!

Luas TMV had stickers indicating a strike this week, much more visable than last week.

[ACustomer]

Jamie2k9: You are right about the 10th. But when I looked at to-day's online IT, that piece was featured. It shows that not only do they do terrible reporting, they recycle it!

The same newspaper is now running election reports from a "representative" sample of 10 (!!). A sample of that size is enough to make any statistician want to tear his hair out.

How can we rely on these guys for news about anything?

[Jamie2k9]

Indo has a peice on their demands:

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/d...-34463823.html

[James Howard]

Unions generally don't feel that public support is necessary to a claim but they might be badly wrong on this one. To be looking for a 50% pay rise and benefits such as 30 - 45 minutes shorter drive time is quite seriously odd.

I'd say the majority of passengers would rather grin and bear the strikes than pay the inevitable fare increases if the Luas operational costs increased by 19 million euro. If that figure is to be taken on face value (and that is a big if), the cost increase represents 50 cent per passenger journey. Somebody has to pay this - it won't be Transdev, so that leaves either the taxpayer or the fare payer.

It seems to be the height of irresponsibility to escalate to two day strikes on this sort of demands so quickly. The only way they can ratchet up the pressure now is to go all out which can't last long before drivers start running out of euros.

[Eddie]

Although only an ad-hoc LUAS user myself, I trust that those who have monthly or annual tickets will be able to claim for strike days, in the same way that those who were affected by the Bus strikes last May were. (I was reimbursed €5.50 per day for 2 days, which at least partially offset the Aircoach ticket I had to buy.)

[Jamie2k9]

Both drivers who are shop stuarts were on RTE saying they want the fare revenue released it generates and they do not want taxpayers money

Not sure how such data will help. There was also speculation that the company may shut down Luas services until it was resolved.

[Mark Gleeson]

Its totally irrelevant

Transdev would still get paid if only 1 passenger showed up tomorrow. They are paid to provide a service laid out in the specification, the farebox is separate function

If the Luas was loss making, or say RPA/TII decided to operate for a week for zero fares. Transdev would still get paid the agreed rate in full.

[Jamie2k9]

Easter Sunday/Monday added, other grades have ended work to rule however drivers have ended the unofficial action after they were threatened with legal action.

SIPTU have moved onto IE as well, DART drivers have voted, will that mean all other will drivers striking as well?