Intercity journey times part 1.

Derek Wheeler · 06-03-2007, 23:23

In 1974 CIE drafted what was known as a rail development plan. The purpose of it was to modernise the system and improve journey times.

In an era of unprecedented investment in the rail network, I thought it might be interesting to draw some comparisons to where we are at now. As you read the first part of this post, take into account that IE have been given over 1 billion euro in infrastructural financing since 1999, seperate from turnover and subsistance.

Dublin/Waterford
1974 proposal - push-pull operation. 2 hr 15min journey time with 4 stops.
2007 reality - 2 hr 29min with 6 stops.

Dublin/Cork
1974 proposal - max line speed 80mph. 2 hr 30min with 2 stops.
2007 reality - max line speed 100mph. 2 hr 45min with 2 stops.

Dublin/Belfast
1974 proposal - max line speed 80mph. 2hrs.
2007 reality - max line speed 90mph. 2hr 6mins with 3 stops.

Dublin/Limerick
1974 proposal - push pull operation. 2hr 10min (some trains running via Nenagh).
2007 reality - 2hr 15min with 3 stops.

To be continued...........

dowlingm · 07-03-2007, 20:17

Derek

is it fair to blame IE solely for this in terms of timetabling or is a more rigid attitude to safety (but dealt with using more SRs rather than fixing the problems) also at issue?

Derek Wheeler · 07-03-2007, 23:31

Ultimately IE are in charge of their own plans or those inherited from CIE, as its predominantly the same people. Prior to Knockcrockery???(spell check hello) we may have had a chance at achieving real speeds. But, yes, it does appear that IE have completlely copitulated in terms of pushing the system. However, goals are goals and considering the investment, current speed restrictions are rediculously over stated and a blatant constraint on performance.

It is unacceptable that over 30 years on, we are still short of proposed journey times on many lines. The money has been flowing. Dublin - Cork - Dublin is still struggling to reach 1970s targets, likewise, the Enterprise. Steam train journey times still compare favourably on parts of the current IE network. From a 21st century passenger prospective, this is borderline scandal.

Mark Gleeson · 07-03-2007, 23:38

The published early 1950's Belfast Dublin (steam) timing was 2:15, the RPSI did it in under 2:15 in the late 1990's using the same trainset more or less. The overall best steam era time including one stop is a outstanding 97 minutes

Roll on today best enterprise time with 1 stop is 105 minutes

It gets better 1984 there was talk of Dublin Cork non stop in 2:15, fact was on a Sunday 2:10-2:15 was routine if unoffical, best time today is 2:45

06-03-2007, 23:23	#1
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	Intercity journey times part 1. In 1974 CIE drafted what was known as a rail development plan. The purpose of it was to modernise the system and improve journey times. In an era of unprecedented investment in the rail network, I thought it might be interesting to draw some comparisons to where we are at now. As you read the first part of this post, take into account that IE have been given over 1 billion euro in infrastructural financing since 1999, seperate from turnover and subsistance. Dublin/Waterford 1974 proposal - push-pull operation. 2 hr 15min journey time with 4 stops. 2007 reality - 2 hr 29min with 6 stops. Dublin/Cork 1974 proposal - max line speed 80mph. 2 hr 30min with 2 stops. 2007 reality - max line speed 100mph. 2 hr 45min with 2 stops. Dublin/Belfast 1974 proposal - max line speed 80mph. 2hrs. 2007 reality - max line speed 90mph. 2hr 6mins with 3 stops. Dublin/Limerick 1974 proposal - push pull operation. 2hr 10min (some trains running via Nenagh). 2007 reality - 2hr 15min with 3 stops. To be continued...........

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07-03-2007, 20:17	#2
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	Derek is it fair to blame IE solely for this in terms of timetabling or is a more rigid attitude to safety (but dealt with using more SRs rather than fixing the problems) also at issue?

07-03-2007, 23:31	#3
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	Ultimately IE are in charge of their own plans or those inherited from CIE, as its predominantly the same people. Prior to Knockcrockery???(spell check hello) we may have had a chance at achieving real speeds. But, yes, it does appear that IE have completlely copitulated in terms of pushing the system. However, goals are goals and considering the investment, current speed restrictions are rediculously over stated and a blatant constraint on performance. It is unacceptable that over 30 years on, we are still short of proposed journey times on many lines. The money has been flowing. Dublin - Cork - Dublin is still struggling to reach 1970s targets, likewise, the Enterprise. Steam train journey times still compare favourably on parts of the current IE network. From a 21st century passenger prospective, this is borderline scandal.

07-03-2007, 23:38	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The published early 1950's Belfast Dublin (steam) timing was 2:15, the RPSI did it in under 2:15 in the late 1990's using the same trainset more or less. The overall best steam era time including one stop is a outstanding 97 minutes Roll on today best enterprise time with 1 stop is 105 minutes It gets better 1984 there was talk of Dublin Cork non stop in 2:15, fact was on a Sunday 2:10-2:15 was routine if unoffical, best time today is 2:45