[MrX]

It's hard to know how the suspensions will be as we have absolutely no experience of CAF high speed rolling stock to go by. I would assume that the suspension system on a 125mph capable heavy coach would be substantially different to that of a commuter train. Afterall, IE have the 29K doing things that it was clearly never designed for. The suspensions are also probabally complicated by the fact that there are motorbogies involved. The CDE won't have any of that to cope with. They're just regular 125mph bogies. I've been on CAF stock in Spain running at 200kmph and it's been quite comfortable and I don't think the spanish network's necessarily all that smooth either. I've had trips from Barcelona to Madrid on older stock where you could order a plain coffee and the shaking would give you cappuccino. The newer stock was nice though. Smooth, well air conditioned, comfortable and fast.

The enterprise is suffering from the same problems that some of the Eurostar stuff that has been used by GNER has. It's expecting to be on LGV (Ligne Grande Vitesse) the ultra smooth lines the TGV runs on. Apparently GNER's eurostars can get a bit bumpy when running on battered UK mainlines. Hopefully, the CDE won't have this issue.

It's also a 125mph Push-Pull set up which means it will possibly have to be quite stable in push-mode. It also means the coaches are probabally quite heavy ... i.e. heavy enough not to jump off the rails if pushed.

I'd like to see the exact specs for these coaches as length and weight will have huge impacts on stability. Part of the reason that European coaches are so smooth is that they're way heavier and longer.

The Cork-Dublin line certainly has the odd bumpy bit. I don't know how it compares to other lines on the network, but even in the MK3s you do occasionally get the odd bit of shuddering. Although that being said, it's a lot nicer than a bus trip. At least you can actually leave a coffee on the table and have it stay there without a lid.

My tests would be :

1) can you leave a coffee on the table and not have it land on your lap and
2) can you comfortably type / work on a laptop.

If the CDE can do both of those... it'll be quite acceptable.

The MK3 is being given a little too much worshiping on this site to be quite honest. I have never found them to be a very comfortable coach by european standards. They're not all that smooth and the seating's horrible. There are FAR nicer intercity coaches around.

If these caf coaches are sufficiently heavy, have their centre of gravity in the right spot and can cope with a few bumps they'll be fine trains.

I am not going to be overly pesimistic about these coaches until I actually end up with heinekin all over my lap!

They look nice, they'll be an excellent marketing tool and they'll attract a lot of people back to rail again.

The current MK3 fleet is OK but it's knocking on and starting to look a bit tatty (nothing that a very minor refurb wouldn't fix). A new pointy silvery-green train will impress the punters big time! It's just like soap powder marketing.. New All improved Ariel Ultra verus good old fashioned Ariel.. even if they're identical in everyway the new one will have the flashy branding and the fancy packaging. People go for that kinda thing!

Once CAF update their website we'll see exactly what the specs are.

We need to compare like with like though. Don't critique the CDE while looking at the MK3 via orange tinted glasses that over look the odd bump here and there. Yes, the MK3 has better suspension than any of the other stock on the network but it's not THAT smooth.

Also, if I am informed correctly, BREL Mark 3 coaches had quite complex suspension. It's not exactly what you would describe as simple stuff. The MK2 and Craven units certainly have simple suspensions which is why they're so springy.

Finally remember that the CAF railcars are spec'd for commuter running which also means that they can skimp on comfort for the sake of cost. They're not an intercity product and really should be compared with the LHB, Mitsui and Alstom EMU (Dart) and DMU stock that's on the commuter network and not with the heavy MK3 BREL coaches or even their MK2 and cravens predecessors.

It's a bit like trying to compare a double decker bus to a luxury coach. They've very different functions and very different levels of comfort and suspensions.

However, it's perfectly fair and reasonable to put the Enteprise up against a MK3. They're supposed to be equivilants. However, don't forget most passengers are actually quite impressed by the Enterprise and don't really moan about the bumps. Their main quibble is the lack of frequency and reliability which comes down to a business decision by IE and NIR not to buy enough of them in the first place!