Rail Users Ireland Forum - [article] Turf War Over Broadstone

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[article] Turf War Over Broadstone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunday Tribune

Rail turf war row may delay new Luas line
Ken Griffin

A KEY element of the government's transport plans for Dublin, the proposed Luas line between O'Connell Street and the Maynooth railway line, may be delayed due to a land dispute between CIE, the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) and the Department of Transport.

CIE and the RPA are fighting for control of a disused railway line running from the former Broadstone railway station in Phibsborough to the Maynooth line.

The line is owned by CIE but, under the government's Transport 21 strategy, it is to be transferred to the RPA so it can build the Luas line.

However, Irish Rail, a subsidiary of CIE, has now put forward a rival scheme for the land, which would see the reopening of the line.

The RPA and the Department of Transport are determined to proceed with the Luas scheme however and have refused to rule out serving a compulsory purchase order on CIE for the line.

An RPA spokesman said that the agency did not need CIE's approval to build the line. "The RPA is not part of the CIE group and applies to An Bord Pleanala for powers to construct, operate and maintain lines, " he said.

CIE has denied that Irish Rail's proposal is designed to block the Luas line proposal. "It is about meeting future demand and ensuring we have a network that has the capacity and flexibility to ensure we can do that, " said a spokesman.

"We envisage that Broadstone would be a terminus for Navan commuter services. It would also facilitate pre-Interconnector service expansion for the Maynooth line."

He said that Irish Rail will submit a business case for the project to the department in the near future. He said that the line would cost between 30 million and 40 million to reopen and services could begin as early as 2010 if the government approved its plan.

However, a spokeswoman for the department said that it would not approve CIE's scheme. "The Luas line has already been decided for the project and that will not be changed, " she said.

She declined to answer questions about whether the dispute revealed a lack of coordination between the transport agencies under the department's remit.

A spokesman for national railway user group, Platform 11, which represents Luas and rail passengers, said the dispute was a "turf war" in which passengers would lose out.

"In this case, it's clear that the Luas link delivers more than a railway would. It could have more stops and bring people right into the centre of town, " he said.

Interesting! Whats the alternative to Broadstone for the heavy rail expansion, all go into the docklands? Or can they squeeze some more out of Connolly?

They don't need Broadstone, there is no shortage of platforms in Connolly and Docklands to cope

This whole situation was invented by Dr Lynch CIE chairman for politcal reasons it appears after all its in Berties back yard. And of course its a turf war

Tune in for the next exciting episode, where IÉ refuse to allow the Luas red line extension to cross Spencer Dock on land they own. Meanwhile, the RPA propose route G for the city-centre link-up, which disrupts the few bus routes that route F missed...

Would a Transport Authority eliminate these turf wars?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostcarpark (Post 20995)

That already happened, the CIE crew where troublesome at the inquiry

Not to mention the on-going 'integrated ticketing/smart card" war..

I believe the alignment should be preserved for a future second tunnel heading south from Broadstone. This could take the form of Luas or heavy rail so I couldn't really care who gets their grubby mits on this stretch. The fact however is that it isn't needed for Navan services and that's a red herring by IE.

I think the fact IE own the land and the Dept of transport said they wouldn't rule out cpo'ing the land are telling.
What better way to get more money from one part of the govt to another and all the cut for lawyers too.

Particularly as a railway order would be the usual method of acquiring land for a railway and didn't the supreme court agree with the crusties in the Glen of the Downs about cpo's not being applicable to inter-govt land transfers. (semi-state to co. co.)

IE don't own the land, CIE do. Thats rather important.

If CIE refuse to play ball sure the minister can sack the board and do what he or she likes.

The CPO is issued under the transport Act. If IE tried to get a works order despite owing the land (yes I know I said CIE at the top) they would fail since its not in line with set down plans

Technicially there's nothing to stop heavy rail using it for the Navan/Maynooth/Pace line till the interconnector is open then it being recommissioned for light rail.

In that case Kildare trains could be brought straight into Connolly and beyond while Navan/Maynooth/Pace trains could either go to Docklands or Broadstone with Luas connections.

Too many cooks though... still...

Hmm... meanwhile the costs of rehabilitating Broadstone for heavy rail are tacked onto the cost of reopening to Navan, which doesn't need it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson (Post 21002)

That already happened, the CIE crew where troublesome at the inquiry

Specificly they said they had agreement (although despite my protests it doesn't seem to have been made public).

Quote:

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Hmm... meanwhile the costs of rehabilitating Broadstone for heavy rail are tacked onto the cost of reopening to Navan, which doesn't need it.

Seems telling. Where is that coming from?

out of nowhere but suspicion of CIE :D When people were looking for Broadstone (pre docklands) it was impossible but nothing is impossible now apparently.

Just found a link that might be relevant to Broadstone reopening.

http://www.darganproject.com

It looks nice, but its got touches of Father Dougal about it in terms of technical feasibility.

Still, I can't knock it. I like the idea. The problem is, thats all it is. An idea, and on the ground, it looks very difficult to implement.

yeah ive looked at it - poor website sadly. Met him there a few weeks ago. His costs are very very low (ambitious) though.

[article] Broadstone station threat to Navan’s rail-link line

don't know if this has been posted already. This was in last weeks edition from the meath chronicle dated 13th june 2007

http://www.meathchronicle.ie/news/br...ne-701304.html

Quote:

THE planned reopening of Broadstone railway station in Dublin could well subvert the long-term reopening of the Navan rail link if Arrow services are based there to serve existing suburbs, according to the North-South Rail Link Group.

Group spokesman Damien Cassidy this week claimed that it had lobbied the Oireachtas Committee on Transport five years ago to reopen the station which was closed in 1931.

Broadstone would enable the reopening of the line to Dunboyne through the linking of the Liffey junction-Clonsilla line and this was part of the Transport 21 Plan, he said. He welcomed Transport Minister Martin Cullen’s agreement to preserve both Navan station and yard for future passenger use. “Our remaining worry is that Broadstone will be given over entirely to Arrow trains serving the present suburbs since Connolly (Amiens Street) is already congested.”

It would be “highly unfair” to hand Broadstone over to those areas, since that station was built to serve Meath and Cavan lines and had a close link to the Luas, he said.

The excuse had been given before when Iarnród Éireann claimed that passengers could not be brought from Navan to Drogheda as the Dublin-Belfast line was “too busy” already, Mr Cassidy added.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...ck-742677.html

City station to get back on track
IT'S been 70 years since the last passenger emerged from the platform at Broadstone in north Dublin city - but the famous old station is set to make a comeback.

When the last passenger steam trains rolled into Broadstone, Sean T O'Kelly was topping the poll in Dublin North West in the election for the ninth Dail.

With the 30th Dail just voted in, Irish Rail chiefs have identified the defunct station as having a key role in meeting rapidly expanding commuter demand.

The €35m plan will provide capacity for services on the Navan commuter line, which is to be reopened.

Rapid growth in demand on commuter routes - up by close to 20 per cent on some lines over last year's record figures - combined with population increases expected over the coming 10-15 years have convinced rail bosses of the need to maximise city centre capacity for rail services.

Iarnrod Eireann point to the success of the new Docklands station, open less than three months and already outstripping projected demand with over 1,000 morning peak commuters arriving daily.

Broadstone Station was a victim of increased road transport - and at midnight on January 16, 1937, the night mail from Westport was the last passenger train to arrive.

It was built in the neo-Egyptian style, and in his book Dublin 1660-1860, architectural historian Maurice Craig gives a somewhat overblown commentary on the famous landmark.

"The Broadstone Station is the last building in Dublin to partake of the sublime. Its lonely grandeur is emphasised now by its disuse as a terminus, and the melancholy quarter of high-and-dry hotels beside it.

"It stands on rising ground, and the traveller who sees it for the first time, so unexpected in its massive amplitude, feels a little as he might if he were to stumble unawares upon the monstrous silences of Karnak or Luxor."

The rather grand old station is a protected building. Bus Eireann will keep on using the old building, while a new rail facility is to be built at the rear of the site by 2010.

New track will be laid between Broadstone Station and Liffey Junction to connect with the Maynooth line.

The article above was accompanied by a photo of a very happy looking Erica Roseingrave of Bus Eireann inside the former Broadstone shed. Irish Rail clearly calling in the support of there budies in Bus Eireann

So the compromise will be LUAS to Broadstone then Train onwards, just like Heuston?

amazing that it takes the existance of the RPA to get IE to do something isnt it?