Iarnród Éireann funding crisis puts lines at risk, report warns
 

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...arns-1.2840355

I presume the brief was to create a scary report where even things like Dublin-Galway and Dublin-Kerry were threatened to create a bit of a fuss.

I have the impression that Irish Rail would gladly be rid off Limerick Junction to Waterford, Ennis to Athenry, Limerick to Ballybrophy and at least Wexford to Rosslare anyway.

We had a report like it a few years ago......I would expect it will be business as usual.

IE are in a catch 22 situation with Limerick-Wateford and BB-Limerick, Wexford down south won't close, whats a couple of miles of track going to cost them considering the major costs are much further up in terms of coastal problems.

Do the NTA cover the full costs of WRC, BB/Waterford-Limerick?

Other stories
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...ings-1.2841264
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...eann-1.2840407
http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...sure-1.2840423

Commentary: http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...rack-1.2843329Yes, Irish Rail aren't doing them for the fun.

Closing a line doesn't make financial sense

Line A takes in revenue X and makes loss Y
NTA pays PSO at value Y (give or take %)

IE closes line A
IE loses revenue X and PSO Y
IE has to pay out redundancy
IE head office costs remain the same but now spread over fewer lines

Prior to the arrival of EC1370 and the NTA IE would be up Y - X - redundancy in year 1 and Y - X in year 2 (Assuming that the subsidy is greater than revenue)

Blessington?

How many people live there?

That hardly seems like a good investment.

There are 6 or 7 large towns round the Dublin and Cork areas that should definitely be ahead of it.

IE are due to get over 50 million in 2017, according to papers yesterday as well. It's clear they will get the loins share of the 650 by 2021. Question is why did Ross leak the report, test waters for possible closures.

I guess the NTA have more to gain by getting rid of lines but who is typically behind touting such closures IE or NTA?

That report is so obviously kite-flying but I'd say it is seriously likely that North Tipp and Limerick Junction to Waterford's days are numbered. Things simply can't go on as they are and it will be a matter of either automating the lines or closing them. Ennis to Athenry is a different case given that the operating costs aren't quite as crazy.

There is a fundamental issue though where Irish Rail are charging 35 euro for an open return for a 70 mile return journey from my station on trains that are for the most part packed and extremely lightly staffed. Yet every train requires a subsidy. Demand is obviously very high yet nobody can afford the fares. The real nub of the issue is that until some way is found to pay for the large numbers of people travelling for free (legally or otherwise), the railway system will remain in crisis.

Tell me more - people travelling for free (legally):eek:

GW: yes, we're the >65s! Don't worry, some day you will benefit too. :D

Note that I didn't suggest the over 65's don't travel for free although I seriously doubt that this facility will be extended to me when I reach that age. The issue is that Irish Rail isn't receiving a fair price for this facility which would cost me something like 6,000 euro a year to pay for myself. This needs to be addressed by either increasing the free travel contribution from state funds or by asking users to contribute a portion of their fare.

As a taxpayer, I personally don't mind a bit more of my tax going into the free travel as it a good use of state funds - the health benefits (and resulting HSE savings) of keeping older people active are pretty obvious. As somebody who pays a lot of money to travel by train, I do however resent part of my fare being used to subsidise other peoples' travel.

Fares - particularly open returns have reached a point where they are getting pretty unaffordable yet the trains are generally pretty busy and still Irish Rail can't make money. Something doesn't add up. Either too few people are buying tickets or Irish Rail are spectacularly inefficient.

JAmes Howard: you are right. In many respects the Free Travel scheme is administered in a completely shambolic way as far as the CIE companies are concerned. Basically it is now a lump-sum payment, so the marginal revenue to Irish Rail from more passengers is zero. The transport companies should be paid for each over-65 they carry: not a lot , just to cover at least the marginal costs of off-peak passengers. Over-65s should have only limited access to peak services.

Needless to say there there is total political cowardice when it comes to these issues. MAybe I can't blame the politicians too much when I can guess how the whingeing media would react.

Yes, it won't be too far off now, my point is that they are not actually travelling for free (we) have made our contribution over all the years of working.

Scrap, car parking changes at stations and people will use the train more. Travelling by bus is just as quick and no car parking changes.

That's fair enough, but the problem is that over 65s have made their contribution to the Government, but the Government haven't handed over a fair share to transportation services.

Anything that is free at the point of use is at risk of being misused / abused.

That may very well be the case - however it discourages people from travelling by train (where I live in Celbridge) nobody is going to drive to the station (1.5 miles from town) and pay for parking on top of the train fare - it's far easier to hop on a bus. There are no parking charges in Clondalkin / Fonthill station and the parking there is not abused.

That's because it's miles from anywhere useful.

I agree parking charges are a problem but regular users get reasonable deals and I think continued promoting of this is required.

Now that would be an idea - free parking where stations 'are miles from anywhere' should be free - ie Hazelhatch/ Celbridge

While regular users used to get very reasonable deals on annual passes, this has gone up by 50% over the last 4 years. Since it's now down to about a 40% discount on 12 monthlies, that will be eroded entirely over the next 3 to 4 years at this rate.

I do think that on principle, you should be charged a bit extra to park a car at the station but for some stations enforcement costs must come pretty close to the revenue. By the time you've factored in the revenue lost this has to almost entirely absorb the income stream from parking.

My understanding is that Irish Rail get about a million euro a year from parking. This is the revenue gained from about 250 to 300 long-distance passes or about 40,000 day returns. I tend to encourage friends and neighbours to use the train when travelling to Dublin as it is so much easier than driving but the most common reason people give for driving aside from the train not going where they need to go is the parking charges.

4.50 on top of 25 euro for a journey than can be done on 20 euro of diesel tips the balance for a lot of people and makes it senseless to use the train if two people are travelling.

Yes I find the same, I always encourage friends/neighbours to use the train Celbridge/Hazelhatch to Dublin as it is far more pleasant than a bus journey, but again it's the parking charges that put them off, also the cost of 145/Luas is a factor. For them it's a no brainer, it's far easier to drive.

I knew I should of been clearer in the first post!

Problem is Clondalkin carries next to no passengers because planned development didn't happen. The same case can't be made about Hazelhatch.

I'm sure free parking would help but it's a necessity at Clondalkin but not so much a problem at Hazelhatch.

Can't see any reason why parking permits couldn't be issued to ticket holders. It wouldn't be that big of a technological feat to have ticket machines that could read travel tickets and issue parking tickets as well as taking cash.

Unfortunately now that parking is established as a revenue it is very difficult for Irish Rail to give it up unless they have a clear business case showing that they will make more money without it. To do this, they would need to have lots of empty seats on trains leaving a station which are likely to be filled with fare-paying passengers if parking was made free.

It might be feasible to argue the case for some stations being made free where the cost of parking enforcement exceeds the revenue but I actually think they have given up on enforcement in a lot of places. I forgot to transfer the parking back from my wife's car for about 10 days recently while I left my car in Edgeworthstown without getting a ticket.

Maybe they are nice enough to recognise the regulars and not fine them but I'd think it more likely that they just aren't bothering with sending a van.

If you commuted on that route you would notice that quite a few passengers use Clondalkin station. The car park at Hazelhatch is massive and only a quarter full - I wonder why :confused:

Taxsaver / annual ticket holders can get a parking ticket at a much reduced rate.

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/Taxsaver

The next stop in, Adamstown, has free parking. The actual main carpark was never even finished!

It's really not easy to get to from Celbridge - the road network is not great - drive into Lucan and then up to Adamstown Station - if you drive that route - well you might as well just continue you journey by car.

Investment is needed badly on the Rosslare line. I took the 18.47 last night haven't took the train is over four years open return €29.50 and a single way which I purchased €20.50 train took exactly 2hrs just from Gorey to Connolly are they serious. I will go back to my regular Wexford Bus such a different of a €10 extra fare bus most times take 1hr20 I don't know how IE honestly expect passengers on their services when clearly 2hrs is an absolute joke. Not impressed by those 22k new trains the seats are so uncomfortable The old Mk3 trains had comfort. If IE ever want my custom they seriously need to look into cheaper fares and a lot more services

More details
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1115/831...rnrod-eireann/

report download link (quite big)

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-...ete_Online.pdf

The passenger data for 2015 shows that some IC/Commuter show record numbers (well 2006-2015 period).

Cork, Tralee, Limerick, Galway, Westport/Ballina, Kildare and Cork Commuter.

Looks like this was thrown together in a mighty hurry with some very strange figures and rambling and irrelevant appendices. Some of the conclusions statements don't seem to correspond with the evidence.

Just one example that immediately stands out - Newry is included in the list of least used stations with 49 passengers in one direction and zero in the other ! How can these figures be correct ? Is this simply the number of passengers on the 0645 from Newry to Bray with nothing else counted ?

What is the justification for looking at the cost per passenger journey, rather than cost per passenger km?

Makes for a more sensationalist headline?

I've glanced through the report and several things stand out:

1. There's no modelling of underlying demand patterns on any route. It could be that some routes are underperforming because current service patterns don't align with customer demand.

2. The report doesn't make the connection between signalling infrastructure and running costs on lines such as Limerick Junction - Waterford and Limerick - Ballybrophy.

3. There is no consideration of any alternative plan other than closure for lines which are underperforming.

4. IE appear to be overegging the pudding somewhat - I am surprised that the Kilkenny signalling already needs replacement while I would like to see how those electrification workers are doing on the Nenagh branch. Plus they aren't even utilising the correct cost metrics i.e. cost per passenger/km.

I don't believe it was part of CTC replacement. All signals from Lavistown in were not replaced when CTC was been upgraded. Now saying that some signal heads have been replaced over last 12/18 months and other works.

Ironic thing is the section of signaling that fails most often is the Waterford West to Ballyhale or all the way to Lavistown South!

This is gas:
Hopefully IE have the scene to ignore!

Another zinger is the relocation of Newry to the Republic and it's classification as one of the 25 least-used stations in the country.

Expect it was some form of oversite or the authors have never looked at a map of Ireland.
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Overall the report is very vage, no substance and all data was more less cut and paste from previous reports.

I fully expect Limerick J to Waterford to get shafted like Waterdord to Rosslare did. Its not something I can accept when IE and NTA both wash their hands of all responsiblity for its failings. The other lines have given the public chance after chance but nothing on this one.

As if WRC or Limerick to BB, who are they trying to kid. Don't see Rosslare getting the chop just not worth it.

The rail review document is all over the place. Whst exactly is the relevance of the histotical list of closures ? From a first pass I see little evidence of strategic thinking or capacity planning (other than some discussions about rolling stock).

As regards lightly used lines, the entire reason for lack of business is conveniently down to lack of demand, no discussion of service quality or relevance. The service on the Wexford, Nenagh and Limerick/Waterford have either deteriorated dramatically or failed to adjust to circumstances. Most of the track and infrastructure on these routes has been upgraded but with little apparent strategic objective other than box ticking in respect of asset age and condition.

As for the inclusion of Newry, this is probably simply the one commuter service provided by Irish Rail !