Bus/Luas collision on O'Connell St
 

Gf just rang to say there's been a collision between a Luas and a 16 bus at Abbey St/O'Connell St. Ambulance and fire brigade at the scene.

Nothing on breaking news sites yet, but expect delays.

Was just on RTE tv news there.

Looks like all traffic stopped on O'Connell St.

EDIT: Link to a pic, looks bad
http://www.flickr.com/photos/darragh/3926211414/

http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showth...ewpost&t=10510

On the twitter site already

http://twitpic.com/hxljd/full

http://www.fabianowski.de/luas.jpg

Right in the kisser...

I'm a bit unsure about the photo orientation there.

Would the driver have been at the end of the LUAS that got hit?

Yep, the driver's end went into the bus first

Hard to tell if the bus ran a red, or the luas ran a signal. Someone was moving that shouldn't have been though...

nah i think its the top

Edit: it was, Breaking news saying the tram driver had to be cut from the wreckage

Here's a picture I shot some half an hour ago on my way to work.

Edit: Also, from looking at it on the ground, I do not think the driver thought he would "fit through". In that case, the Luas would have just clipped the tail end of the bus. Instead, it hit it right in the center.

Edit 2: From that picture on flickr, you can see the luas is derailed with its front off to the left. To me this means after hitting the bus, it got dragged along - so the bus must have been moving at some speed.

It's definitely the front of the luas that hit the bus.

O'Connel bridge traffic cam live video is showing all but rightmost two lanes of O'Connle bridge closed, northbound traffic being diverted on to Eden quay. Nothing coming southbound on O'C st, except an ambulance just gone through.

Eden quay looks to be moving surprisingly well considering.

:confused:

O'Connell St southbound is closed at Parnell St. That's the route I came walking and guards were diverting traffic there.

I hope nobody is seriously hurt.

I have to say that I have never heard of a tram driver jumping the lights. I`m afraid that I can`t say the same about bus drivers.

:(

21 hospitalised, 3 serious

:eek: hope all will be ok!

Hold on a sec i was merely suggesting what could have happened i admitted it was a stupid thing to say.

With regards to luas being at fault the only reason i mentioned that was because i know someone who was there and says the traffic light was at green at the time and also that someone on boards mentioned that their brother was on the bike just ahead of the bus and the light was green.
i wasnt there im just saying what i was told. Maybe it could have been a problem with the luas signalling im sure we will find out.

Noones perfect. Attack the post not the poster.

It could have been so many things - even a signal misfunction (green for the bus, go-ahead for the luas) or a brake failure or, or, or... No point in speculating right now. And certainly no point in attacking anyone!

Edit: As for the current situation, if I am interpreting the pixelated webcam image correctly, there should be a crane on site right now. A friend just headed over to check whether they are actually lifting the luas off the tracks.

From http://www.luas.ie/page.php?name=Dis..._Red_Line_Luas:

A number of people on boards.ie have mentioned that passengers inside the tram could not open the doors after the crash. I'm assuming they had enough sense to use the manual release instead of the button (you never know) and still had no luck.

Surely the area around the doors wouldn't be reinforced enough to stop the doors compressing in a crash? I doubt the Luas was moving at much speed so the impact-damage should have been fairly minimal.

All the doors on the Luas where open when I saw the tram

The problem lies in people assuming the doors will open when the emergency handle is pulled, you still need to push the doors and pull them apart as per the notice next to the handle

The structural integrity of the passenger area was uncompromised, no sign of any distortion which would have restricted the doors opening

That's probably it.

Assuming the Luas was operating as per the signalling system blame would lie with the bus and visa versa. Going by past accidents on the red line human error is more than likely the cause but it could be with either parties or both.

Hopefully the 3 separate accident investigations will come to the same conclusion..

At the corner where the accident occured the sightlines to the right of the tram are actually quite good and the fact that the tram hit the bus in the centre all seem very confusing. The trams normally stop outside Easons to await a signal to cross the road so how the bus got halfway across the tram path before the collision beats me.

I wonder if the tram stopped outside Easons at all?

I bet this has put a bit of a delay on the Line C1 testing..

Edit:

According to CIE now, the road traffic had a green light.

What might be interesting is the position of the sun, it was behind the tram and quite bright. There is a possibilty that the reflection made the luas traffic signal look like a proceed (bar down) or a conditional proceed (cluster of lights)

There is plently of CCTV so the exact cause will be know, there is of course a chance that the traffic lights showed proceed to both at the same time.

I don't think the fingerpointing by CIE is going to help matters. They should be taking the Veoila stance and not commenting on the investigation.

Its Dr Lynch mouthing off, he was there himself at 15:45 yesterday.

ok sorry im just saying wait until all the fact's are out!

quiet right they would try and blame someone else!

Thanks personally i thought i jumped the gun as did alot of people on the forums yesterday! It will be interesting to see what happens. There was a mention in the paper today that a teenage girl is still in a critical state in hospital. Hopefully everyone will be ok.

Garda Witness Appeal
 

A friend of mine was there when the accident happened. She said it was very scary with people shouting for help. She said a special branch Garda car was going down the street the wrong way and a bus was pulling in to let it pass and the luas struct it. Another person on boards said they heard this story from someone by the GPO also.

My own theory on it is. The bus driver had the green light, but then got stuck in traffic on the far side, by which time the traffic lights were red, and allowed the Luas to go. The Luas then smashed into the bus.

The whole accident at a notorious flashpoint junction, is an eerie reminder of why we should have had a Metro system, or at the very least a bridge crossing the street for the trams, similiar to the train bridge nearby. You wouldn't see trains attempting to cross streets full of other vehicles in a city centre, so trams shouldn't be allowed either. Instead you have an "Irish" solution, and it leaves the tram a sitting duck without a bridge or barriers as protection for crossing the busiest street in the city. It is solely down to the goodwill and discipline of other transport users that there haven't been more serious incidents on it so far.

While I agree the Abbey St/O'Connell St junction is rather unfortunate and dangerous, I do think your theory fits the accident: The tram was clearly derailed, its front dragged on quite a distance in the direction of traffic on O'Connell St. IMHO, that can only have happened with the bus moving at considerable speed - and not suck in traffic.

Irish Solution?
 

On the move refers to the tram system as an 'Irish solution'. If one were to visit any European city with trams - Amsterdam, Vienna and many more, one would see that the Dublin Luas is actually built to a higher standard with far more seqregation from traffic. Trams crossing main routes is common place; Luas is nothing different. Trams even go through pedestrian zones!

In Vienna, trams run down the middle of some streets and the stops are simply in the middle of the street; no platforms. Traffic is expected to stop while passengers disembark and make their way to the footpath. In other areas, trams share road space with traffic; this only happens is a very few places on Luas - Beresfort Place and Thomas Street. Also many of the older trams around Europe are totally non-wheelchair accessible unlike Luas which is excellent in this regard.

It is also clear the both bus and tram were moving at speed so there is no possibility that the bus was stuck in traffic.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking38.html

So it appears the gardai have obtained sufficient evidence to prove the bus had the right of way and that the Luas jumped a stop signal

Twas on the Evening Herald too.

I thought the Luas had some kind of automation which prevented it from passing a stop signal ?

Clearly isn't the case in the city centre at least if it was possible to jump the lights!

The Luas is a permissive system so you may start against a red light, though the system will force you to stop approaching a red it appears.

Exact same as the DART really, you can start against a red signal but you get a warning buzzer. If in motion buzzer comes on and the train automatically stops if the driver doesn't select at least neutral, either way train brakes to a walking pace itself