At most stations in Ireland, you buy your ticket and go onto the platform indicated to get your train.
This is how it works in Connolly Tara Pearse.
His train was on the platform indicated he passed through an unlocked gat to get onto his train.
he doesn't state if there was a sign telling customers to wait to get their ticket validated or not. If there wasn't, getting on the train seems perfectly rational and proper.
I don't care about arcane bull**** byelaws and obsure terms and conditions unavailable at the point you buy your ticket. Good customer service will tell you what you need to do to avail of the service properly and Politely ask you to do what is necessary to enable the company run a smooth service.
Ryanair tell you in black and white all their nasty gotcha's and terms and conditions with every ticket. they also make a profit. They also provide a better customer service than Irish rail. And Ryanair would not be high up any list of good customer service.

Being abusive to your paying customers is not good customer service, even if they are rude to you.
Expecting customers to know how a service always operates even if they've never used it before and berating them for this is not good customer service.
Expecting customers to know that the way it works in all their other stations doesn't work in one particular station, and berating them for it is poor customer service.
Good customer service isn't free, it takes an effort from the company to introduce it.
Good manners and politeness are free however.

What turnapin said is the way it should be.

>>> Post of the Year <<<

Yeah?

Hold on a second here. This is the point I'm making:

Got it? It was closed. Dosnt matter if he knows why its closed or not. It's bloody closed. He decided to open it and wander on. Correct attitude of the IE staff would be to politly tell him to go back the train isnt ready for boarding yet and be polite and mannerly at all times to him - after all he is a customer.

Well you cant at Heuston. Tough titty. I want to go to Dublin Airport, buy my ticket and get on a plane without all this security and boarding pass bull****. Tough titty on me though.

There are two things here. Firstly, everyone of the staff he met were rude, arrogant and nasty. That is the fault of IE. Secondly, he was left bewildered by the gate practices of IE - that is also the fault of IE. There should have been someone at the gate, there wasnt. There usually isnt untill the time to check tickets comes around.

Give you an example: Back in October myself and Mark G were in the middle of the queue for the train to Limerick, maybe 200 ahead of us, maybe more behind us, we were past the ATM we were so far back. The train was due to leave in 5 mins and no ticket checker had arrived to open the gate and start checking. Eventually with thee mins to spare he turned up. Sometimes he'll be there 20 mins beforehand today he was late. Now, leaving aside me and MarkG knowing what was going on, there were maybe 400 people there who didnt. Did they decide to open the gate and legg it onto the train?

I'm no defender of IE, far from it. This guy was wrong to go through the gate, simple as. It dosnt distract from the absolute dogs dinner of a servie he got from the staff he encountered though. They are two seperate issues.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that. If I arrived at Heuston less than ten minutes before departure, saw my train sitting on the platform, no sign of anyone queuing and no staff member to tell me what to do, I'd assume I was late and dash for the train. Even if the gate was closed, how is a new customer supposed to know what that means, maybe they self close to avoid swinging around, maybe the last person through closed it by accident, there are numerous valid reasons for going through.

The guy did what normal people would do, Irish Rail are _entirely_ at fault here. Signage, staff, physically locking the gate - there are so many things they could have done but didn't. Most people would be embarrassed and annoyed at being given out to which is hardly a recipe for encouraging repeat custom.

signage
 

Agreed - if I turned up at a platform with minutes to go before my train was due to leave and all that was between me and the train was a gate I would open the gate in the absense of a staff member or sign specifically telling me that this was not to be done. The alternative is to stand there like someone with no intuition, or no ability to apply logic to the situation they find themselves in and watch the train depart after standing behind the gate for a few minutes.

I don't know whether there is signage in place indicating that the gate should only be opened by authorised people but in the absense of the signage I would proceed to my train.

z

customer management
 

"Did they decide to open the gate and legg it onto the train?" - no, but you can bet there were a lot of anxious people all through that queue. Those at the front worrying that somehow they had not noticed that IE had moved the queue for this train (or even the entire train) to the adjacent platform and nobody had told them. Those in the middle (out of clear sight of the train) wondering if they were in the wrong queue entirely. Those at the back of the queue wondering all of the above and also whether if/when the queue eventually got moving they would be get to the ticket checker before the train was due to leave.

z

The only hole in your arguments is that that is what happens all the time in Heuston and you dont see people unlocking gates and running up platforms.

There arent actually. Leaving aside anything I know, gates are locked for a reason. To stop you from going through. This gate was bolted.

When the gate is closed its closed by a bolt being put into a hole in the side supports.

I agree on signage, good idea, should be on the gate.

Of course, the elephant in the room here is that it may not have been the 11.00 train at all. I once watched the 16.00 on a sunday break down with everyone on it and depart after the 17.00..................

anyway, this is starting to go round in circles, lets get back to why we're here: the appaling staff on the CDE.

No, there is a point to be made here I think. I and a lot of other people assume that a closed gate means sweet FA in Heuston since there is no sign, whether electronic or otherwise that something may happen.

We assume just like the rest of Irish life, nobody has bothered to open the gate; therefore no penalty for lashing for it.

You wouldn't do it at an airport would you??

If the gate is closed, its closed, wait and form a queue, far too often the train in the platform is not the one you are looking for, imagine this guy boarded and the train vanished off to Inchicore. Equally the ticket checker may have been required to assist a passenger to board the train and had to close the gate. The gate exists to prevent passengers from boarding a train when they shouldn't, that is perfectly reasonable

If everyone started to open the locked gates in Heuston just because they felt like it it would cause all out chaos

You are required to have your ticket validated/stamped etc if there is a gate, again you will find this is common across the rest of Europe where you must get the ticket punched or stamped before boarding and failure to do so will result in trouble. Now its inconsistent but still

The host was correct to refuse access as the ticket wasn't stamped when it should be, however his attitude in dealing with the issue was way out of line

Ticket checks on the Cork line are conducted normally after Limerick Junction Cork bound and after Thurles Dublin bound to catch anyone who boarded since Dublin or Cork and also to nab anyone travelling beyond their destination, thats not unreasonable

A fair point - I wouldn't do it at an airport. Correct.

Why not ? because I trust the Airport and airline management to open it and close it as it is supposed to be done. In addition I have departure boards above every gate telling me if its boarding, plus plenty of PAs from the announcer telling me to get a move on.

The same does not apply to IE.

In an airport, you'd find the door physically locked in a way that passengers can't open. This alone tells you that you're not supposed to pass. You'd also find a sign stating the flight number and a status such as 'Not boarding', 'boarding now' or 'gate closed'. You'd also find at least one staff member beside the gate to help passengers. None of those things are true in Heuston in my experience and people who are afraid of missing their train will make their way to it. The only way to stop this is through communication, something IE are inept at. Maybe you're right and the guy was in the wrong but he's a) a customer and b) proof that the system isn't clear for customers.

yep, i'd agree 100% with that.

we know that there can be breakdowns in communication in Heuston. In fact, changing the Dox Matrix thing above a gate to "Now boarding" as opposed to "on time" is a very excellent idea.

I find the locked gate issue to be a bit of a red herring. People only go through locked gates as a last resort. In this case it appears to be a train that’s due to depart in eight minutes, a locked gate and no information(though presumably the display said On Time, which would compound matters). If there’s a queue you don’t go through. If the gates staffed, you don’t go through. If there’s neither you’re in a difficult position, where you could either catch the train or feel like an idiot in eight minutes time.

The real issue is that IE are terrible at providing information to passengers. They are an absolute disaster at providing it on a consistent basis across the network and just to compound matters, each line and station appears to have it's own peculiarities of operation which are largely undocumented and may be interpreted differently by different employees.

I love the idea of “Now Boarding” at the gate. In truth I’m sure it would just be a matter of time before someone comes up to an unattended locked gate with a train on the platform and “Now Boarding” on the display.

I've been on a few railways around Europe and the U.S. and I've never seen anything like that.

Most places, including the Sligo line out of Connolly, it's really very simple, you buy your ticked and show up at the platform. If the train is ready, the doors are open, you board, and there's usually well announced with clear station announcements, destination boards that work etc. Simple as that. If it's not ready, the doors are closed and you don't get on. Simple.

As for this valiadation business - again wtf?

This individual didn't know enough about the unusual and second-guessing situation that exists on some long distance services - all he wanted was a simple, relaxing journey to Cork. Nothing more, nothing less.

He apparently came to Heuston not that well informed, found a lack of customer information, an unstaffed gate that was closed (not locked?) and saw that his train was due to leave in 8 minutes.

What's more, he went out of his way to give IE a chance when he could have (and most likely will from now on) get a connecting flight to Cork.

It is reasonable to assume that a train scheduled to leave in 8 minutes is now boarding - unless you're explicitly told otherwise. Using the airport example, when was the last time a plane boarded 2 minutes before it took off? Not too often, I'd say.

IE either needs simplify boarding procedures dramatically, or make it very clear to all users - including those not familiar with it - the exact procedures to be followed.

I can certainly identify with his problem with the ticket inspections on the train and again, this is a major failure by IE. Mark may be quick to defend IEs onboard ticket checks but the way they do it simply isn't best practice. The best practice I've ever seen is on the MTA railroads out of New York City. There, the conductor uses punched slips of card paper on seat headrests to see who's entitled to travel where. If you're at a seat that doesn't have a card, the conductor asks for your ticket and will either punch your ticket (if it's valid for more trips) take it if it's only good for that journey, or sell you a ticket at a serious premium if you don't have one.

Once that's done they punch a small card, slide it into the headrest (which was designed for that purpose) and they don't bother you again unless they have a good reason. It's simple and it works.

Particularly in 1st class where someone pays a serious premium for comfort and convenience, some simple way of tracking passengers without bothering them should not be beyond the realms of possibility.

None of what goes on in IE is defensible because all of it can be done much better.

This procedure occurs only in Heuston. In Connolly, Drogheda, Rush and Lusk, Donabate, Westport, Balbriggan, Arklow, Kilcoole, Dun Laoighaire you buy your ticket and go onto the platform to board or wait for your train.

All Aer Rianta's Airports follow the same proceedure. One of Irish Rail's stations follows a procedure different to most of the rest. This is different to the majority of train systems used abroad too. This difference is not communicated clearly to customers.

Locked or closed? It is fairly reasonable to assume any unlocked door or gate in any area open to the public is going to be opened and passed through unless clear communications direct people not to.

Irish rail should lock gates if they don't want people to open them.
If you board at many stations at different times of the day you will pass a gate and no one will stamp your ticket. Don't come back and say well the rules are different if there's no one there or such. If Irish Rail can't get their act together simply and consistently that is not our fault or the fault of a first and last time customer of theirs.

A better attitude would be to stamp the customer's ticket, and inform the customer of the proper procedure for the next time the customer "lets the train take the strain"

I like your post, Obviously we are going to defend the Irish Rail Network because we use it and mainly we dont actually know what speed is[ ha ha ]
Compared to the TGV if you use it our rail network is last century trains.
About the 19th Century stuff well what can I say except God Bless Iarnrod Eireann for trying.
The system has its flaws but compared to other trains in the world its OnBoard Information is reasonability good and percise. (Example) Ladies and Gentlemen, Iarnrod Eireann welcomes you onboard. This is the nine hundred (09:00) hours train from Dublin Hueston to Cork serving Limerick Jnct, Charleville, Mallow and Cork. Your attention is drawn to the safey and evacuation notices. Thank you for your attention, Have a pleasant and comforable journey. Can I ask what is the french announcements but translated into English?..........

That does sound good indeed, although I almost always take the Dublin-Galway train. I'll really make an effort to check out the service this Christmas. One of the advantages of living away from home is that the changes really stand out when you come back.
Sure. Here's an example
"Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome aboard the Corail Intercité train to Tours. This train will serve Les Aubrais, Orléans, Meung-sur-Loire, Blois, St. Pierre des Corps and Tours its terminus. We inform passengers that their ticket must be validated. Those who have not completed this formality, please make yourself known to the inspector before any checks are made."
Then the usual:
"The train is about to depart, please keep clear of the doors, the train is departing."
And then the "Ladies and Gentlemen..." part above is repeated once the train departs.
None of this is automatic, it is always the ticket inspector who talks over the speakers.

With regards the whole issue of locked gates (at terminus stations), there are none in France. All platforms are open and people are only aware of which train is theirs once the platform number is indicated on the main display board. This is meant to happen 20 minutes before departure. It's quite a site to watch in, say, Montparnasse station when the platform number for a packed (up to 1090 passengers in Duplex TGV's) TGV is displayed only 5 or 10 minutes before departure, although the compulsory reservation on TGV's prevents total chaos. Passengers self-validate their tickets in machines to the sides of the platform entrance. On some rare occasions (e.g. busy holiday periods) your ticket will be checked before boarding.

Yes - exactly .... Paddington in London is the same for departure boards ...

everyone is watching the board until the platform number goes up and signalled ready for boarding.

Nobody goes near a train since they have no idea which train it is...

Did this guy manage to miss the huge (1m x 1m) sign beside platform 5 saying "Cork Queue Here":D

No excuse for going in the normal platform 5 gate, really.

I dunno. I got the train to Cork on Thursday evening and at least 20 people ended up on the wrong side (i.e. through what looks like it should be the platform gate but is no longer used, cause of the Cork Queue Here sign (which is to the side of the platform). A number of them (from what I could see) opened the gate (some just tailgated!). The train staff chased them all off at the various stages of entry. So this problem is far from a once-off. In particular, the fact that the dot matrix sign above the expected entrance to platform 5 indicates that the Cork train goes from there is a problem. I understand the desire to have a separate queue (although I can't yet understand why we have to queue in the first place, I can get a train at most London terminals without this ridiculous thing of standing for 15 minutes in a queue to enter a platform), but the signs are at least confusing (in particular to non-everyday users) and that should be addressed.