[Article] Is it time to put a stop to drinking on trains?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Irish Times

Is it time to put a stop to drinking on trains?

CATHERINE CLEARY

Despite the presence of private security, antisocial behaviour on trains is still rife

HERE’S AN alternative script for an Irish Rail ad. A woman steps on to a modern, clean train. She settles into a comfortable, pre-booked seat. Nearby someone starts playing an iPod through a set of speakers. The woman stands up and asks the young man if he would mind using his headphones. The music is switched off.

Seconds later a different man unleashes a torrent of verbal abuse on the woman. He stands up, eyeballs her at length and then personalises the threats and abuse. The teenagers laugh. The music is switched back on. The woman goes to another carriage where she can feel safe again.

This was my experience of a Friday-afternoon train journey. I love train travel, and know that it may not quite match the ad-land version of smiling people in sun-drenched serenity. But I didn’t expect this.

It is legal to get on to a train in the Republic with a slab of cans, crack them open and drink yourself into a comatose or belligerent state. If you become a threat to other passengers your drink may be taken by private security staff or the Garda may be called. But it is a grey area.

The train I was on was patrolled by security men in black body armour, members of staff of the private firm STT Security, an Irish company set up in 1993 by a former Army ranger. STT is used by Irish Rail and Veolia Transport, the Luas operator, to police trains, Darts and Luas trams.

Dr Mark Gleeson, a spokesman for the voluntary lobby group Rail Users Ireland, was on the Wexford train the same afternoon travelling out of Dublin. Shortly into the journey two drunken teens were walking up and down swinging beer bottles around. The train came to an unscheduled stop in Blackrock.

“Two security guys got on, and the Garda were expected, but they didn’t turn up,” says Dr Gleeson. “It was very frustrating, because the train was stopped and no one came.”

Gleeson’s group has called on the new Government to bring in two measures to improve safety on trains: banning people from drinking their own alcohol on the journey and setting up a transport police force. The alcohol ban could mirror the system in Northern Ireland, he believes, “where if you’re caught with an open container of alcohol you’re off the train”. This would get around the problem of people travelling with shopping that might include unopened alcohol.

Dr Gleeson says he has no problem with Irish Rail selling alcohol on a train, “because that’s a face-to-face transaction with someone who can judge the situation”. But he believes a ban on carry-on alcohol is needed.

Another recent rail passenger, who did not want to be named, was on the Belfast train last month, travelling from Dublin, when a crowd of youths carrying slabs of beer in cans got into the carriage and started drinking.

“There was a Japanese woman with an elderly woman and a child sitting in pre-booked seats. They had to move out of their booked seats because of the noise and shouting,” he said. “The thing that strikes you is that you can go up and approach them but then you’re stuck with them. You’re the guy who tackled them, and you’re all stuck together for the rest of the journey.”

A spokesman for Irish Rail says the STT guards have the power to confiscate alcohol from people on trains if they are posing a threat and there is a ban on alcohol on match trains. “A general ban is something we would monitor and have a relatively open mind on,” he says, adding that the ability to have a drink on board a train is one of the selling points of train travel. “We want to encourage groups to be able to go away together and enjoy themselves while trying to protect the majority.”

The spokesman says he has no figures on the number of incidents of antisocial behaviour on Intercity trains. “But it’s not something that’s dramatically increasing or decreasing.” He says there are communications buttons at the carriage ends, so that a passenger can contact the driver, who can slow down the train and activate the CCTV system. These buttons are outside the carriage so that a passenger can complain about something discreetly.

Irish Rail banned alcohol on trains on the Waterford line a number of years ago, he says, as a result of large numbers of stag- and hen-party incidents.

Veolia started using STT on Luas trams in April 2009 after a dramatic rise in antisocial behaviour on the two Dublin lines. Incidents of public disorder rose from 272 in 2006 to 886 in 2009. The STT security staff get on and off trams on the Red Line from 10am until the last tram and on the green line from 3.30pm until the last tram, a spokeswoman says.

The STT or Luas staff will approach anyone drinking on a tram and ask them to leave. If they refuse the Garda is called to remove them. It is a simple ban, because under current bylaws it is illegal to drink on a tram. The additional security seems to have had a positive effect on incidents. Last year the company recorded 633 incidents of antisocial behaviour, a drop from the 2009 level of 886.

Mark Gleeson believes antisocial behaviour is “not really a very big problem”, but one bad experience can put people off travelling at night or on their own. The improvement of trains means that people are no longer complaining to the Rail Users forum about decrepit rolling stock, or uncomfortable or unheated trains. But they are hearing about problems with bad behaviour.

“It’s localised to Friday, Saturday and Sunday and specific to certain destinations like Galway, Rosslare or Courtown in the summer,” says Gleeson. “The security they put on is very positive, but without legal backing it’s not enough.”

© Irish Times 2011
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...293121256.html

[Tina]

I have travelled from Wicklow Town to Pearse Station many, many times with disruptive drunks and many junkies onboard - an overlapping set. Why minivan services to methodone clinics can not be provided, I don't know, but the situation is dangerous and a tragedy waiting to happen. Railway employees won't say or do anything. And most trains don't carry security police. Gardai come if there is reported trouble, but not always, and not fast enough.

This simply wouldn't be tolerated, and isn't, in any other country where I have travelled by train, and I travel by train whenever and whereever I can.
Furthermore other countries do not permit people to play music but now require earphones.

I would dearly love it if nighttime services were provided so that I could go to dinner, meet friends or see a film or a play in Dublin and come home by train, but I can just imagine the horror and violence that would ensue afterhours, given the carry on in daylight. If trains were made safe and frequent many more would use them and everything should be being done to discourage people from driving into Dublin by day or night. It won't happen here because there isn't a critical mass of influential people who use public transport. It's largely a matter of class, a subject which everyone ignores.

[weehamster]

Heres a wild thought. Why not get the train security to be a part of the Garda Reserve. Would this help?

[sean]

While I agree anti social behaviour on trains is a problem (as it is throughout society, unfortunately) I disagree that a simple ban on alcohol is the answer. For two reasons:

1. As a Libertarian, I don't see the point in punishing those who can have a quiet drink - and indeed IMHO there are two kinds of people: people who can have a few quiet drinks and people who become loud and threatening after one or two.
2. It won't solve the other problems: people taking drugs, people smuggling booze onto the train and taking it out when there's no-one to tell them otherwise. It also will do nothing about people who are just plain old scumbags, whether they be drunk or sober.

For both of those reasons I think it would be a better idea to have those STT guys patrolling trains that are likely to have problems.

[dowlingm]

Give free travel to all members of the Gardai and the Defence Forces in uniform and in possession of their service credentials. The latter would not be empowered to do anything, but hopefully the sight of them will provide some comfort and they could observe and report to IE personnel and police in some cases where the general public might be too scared to.

[Thomas J Stamp]

the defence forces??

anyway, the important thing is to prevent people taking drink onto trains - the sale of drink on intercity trains is not the mian problem as that can be controlled.

then again, you do not need people to take the drink onto the trains either - people can get onto the train already intoxicated in one form or another and can proceed to be an annoyance or threat to other passengers.

what is needed is a dedicated wing of the traffic corps to deal with this. Reserve offices do not have the power nor do Defence Forces.

[Mark Gleeson]

There are already clear mechanisms to refuse/remove someone who is intoxicated (which now means drink or drugs). Also there are mechanisms to remove someone who is disruptive. Thats all great but its post fact

Its trivial to spot the likely lads with a slab of cans walking towards platform. What Irish Rail need is

1. Power to refuse someone who is reasonably believed by an official to represent a risk of disruption. E.g Deco and a slab of cans

2. A ban on consumption of alcohol not purchased on the train

A certain student bar in Dublin came up with a magic way to block drink being brought in. They simply made only a single type of lager and cider available anyone caught drinking anything else was ejected. Word got out and problem vanished

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

1. Power to refuse someone who is reasonably believed by an official to represent a risk of disruption. E.g Deco and a slab of cans

It can also be Fiachra on the phone to his dealer ...

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

what is needed is a dedicated wing of the traffic corps to deal with this. Reserve offices do not have the power nor do Defence Forces.

I agree with the need for a dedicated force but living as I do in a city with one, the reality is that they can't be and therefore aren't everywhere - there will be a vehicle/officer ratio. Having uniformed people around for want of a better word raises the tone - and at a time of public service restraint it would be a good perk to hand out in lieu of pay rises which didn't have implications for pensions etc.

[Thomas J Stamp]

as the rail network move more and more towards automation in stations the ability for a staff member to prevent people from getting on board with cans or intoxicated is therefore reduced. the only way to provide a meaningfull and effective security presence it is to have a small number of gardai (easier in the Commuter area) hopping on and off as part of their beat. the reason i mentioned traffic corps is that they are not usually tied down to one station and can be deployed over a large area.

also some services are easily identified as problems - any Luas from Tallaght after a Bohs match with Rovers for example.

[dowlingm]

Bohs-Rovers and similar predictable stuff shouldn't require a transport police though - that's event policing and should be made the local garda honcho's problem. Transport police should be concentrating on point issues such as keeping ticket machines free of loiterers, arresting people who won't follow direction from LUAS staff etc. Between wages, equipment and other costs police officers are expensive compared to both customer service and contract security staff.

Toronto has 100 special constables with batons and other non-lethal equipment but the local police service which had agitated against them for years finally got them downgraded and now the system is patrolled by a detachment of 80 regular (armed) police with the SCs being redeployed to other duties. Considering it's a massive 24x7x365 system with almost 2000 buses, 200 streetcars and 600 subway cars, I don't think 80 goes very far.

[Colm Moore]

For every duty, you need to have up to 5 people employed (4x43 hour working weeks per week and one on leave / training). However, you can obviously tailor that to the daily / weekly fluctuations in demand.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Bohs-Rovers and similar predictable stuff shouldn't require a transport police though - that's event policing and should be made the local garda honcho's problem. Transport police should be concentrating on point issues such as keeping ticket machines free of loiterers, arresting people who won't follow direction from LUAS staff etc. Between wages, equipment and other costs police officers are expensive compared to both customer service and contract security staff.

Toronto has 100 special constables with batons and other non-lethal equipment but the local police service which had agitated against them for years finally got them downgraded and now the system is patrolled by a detachment of 80 regular (armed) police with the SCs being redeployed to other duties. Considering it's a massive 24x7x365 system with almost 2000 buses, 200 streetcars and 600 subway cars, I don't think 80 goes very far.

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

For every duty, you need to have up to 5 people employed (4x43 hour working weeks per week and one on leave / training). However, you can obviously tailor that to the daily / weekly fluctuations in demand.

which is why it is more relaistic to have members of the traffic corps do it

[Jack O'Neill]

Madam, – Having witnessed three teenagers drinking cans of beer and urinating on Platform 6 in Connolly station last Wednesday, I decided to ring Iarnród Éireann’s antisocial behaviour line 1850 366222 as advertised on its poster, to report the incident.

Incredibly, this turned out to be the main inquiry line, so I gave up after option five. I later checked this number, having bought more credit and found I had to wait until option eight to report my incident (56 seconds!).

You could be beaten up by then.

Also, for your act of goodwill you are charged at least 30 cent.

No wonder there’s so much anti social behaviour on our trains and stations, when these thugs are allowed do it in the first place and then you cannot report it immediately. – Yours, etc,

TONY
Gorey, Co Wexford.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Jack O'Neill

Madam, – Having witnessed three teenagers drinking cans of beer and urinating on Platform 6 in Connolly station last Wednesday, I decided to ring Iarnród Éireann’s antisocial behaviour line 1850 366222 as advertised on its poster, to report the incident.

Incredibly, this turned out to be the main inquiry line, so I gave up after option five. I later checked this number, having bought more credit and found I had to wait until option eight to report my incident (56 seconds!).

You could be beaten up by then.

Also, for your act of goodwill you are charged at least 30 cent.

No wonder there’s so much anti social behaviour on our trains and stations, when these thugs are allowed do it in the first place and then you cannot report it immediately. – Yours, etc,

TONY
Gorey, Co Wexford.

HI, you are through to the Springfield Police Department! To report Regicide press one...

[Mark Gleeson]

There are two passenger emergency contact buttons on platform 6/7 for use in these situations

[MaryK]

It must be 12 years ago when I was travelling home to Cork on a crowded train from Dublin that the drinking youth across from me knocked over his can of beer, right into my lap. He had little enough to drink that he apologiesed but enough to drink to just sit down again after a quick sorry and not offer any assistance with cleaning mopping up.

After stating quiet forcefully that I did not appreciate sitting opposite someone who spilled their beer all over me with barely an apology he moved. I had a very damp uncomfortable journey home.

I would agree with the absence of alcohol on train journeys.