Best Train Journeys on the IE timetable

Oisin88 · 27-09-2006, 17:53

Would you do this:
From Station: Galway 2110
To Station: Dublin Heuston 0710
Journey Time: 10 hour(s) 0 minutes
Number of Changes: 1

Came up on the www.irishrail.ie timetable when I looked for Galway-Dublin Services?
Will they, like Iberia for flights through Madrid that involve an overnight layover, put you up in the Radisson near the train station in Athlone for the night?

Mark Gleeson · 27-09-2006, 18:35

That has been admitted to us as being a bug and a new journey planner thing is currently under evaluation

Derek Wheeler · 27-09-2006, 18:46

But its still a damn good laugh.

Anyway, a bug is only an excuse that can last a reasonable period of time. Should be fixed immediately. Makes the country look stupid. Its a case of taking the option out of the database.

Mark Gleeson · 27-09-2006, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oisin88

Will they, like Iberia for flights through Madrid that involve an overnight layover, put you up in the Radisson near the train station in Athlone for the night?

Radisson is a bit expensive breakfast is'nt really that greeat. I've been there, great bar though overlooking the Shannon. Over night accommodation is your problem

This is a route problem its a pain for computers to work out from a to b they lack the human intuition

The journey is valid its not incorrect information its just not a journey anyone would make

Derek Wheeler · 27-09-2006, 19:52

Its a database of the existing timetable. Each route, service, station and connection is assigned a code. Database search returns all possible journies. Its ASP (Active Server Pages) The rediculous journey quoted by Oisin can be taken out of the database very quickly. Obviously IE have not instructed their IT people to do that. No need for a new journey planner. Ryanair use CGI (Common Gateway Interface) Similar gadget. Its not rocket science. All very basic stuff that requires an initial dose of human commomsense.

Mark Gleeson · 27-09-2006, 20:20

The system doesn't store preassigned routes, thats not the way to do business since you would have to recalc several million options given the number of stations and choices its not feasible, its a recursive problem known as the traveling salesman which is only practically solvable if you have conditions. its real easy if there is a direct train

It has a list of all trains running and combines the timetables together to get a result by connecting trains together based on assessing all possibilties at all stops with an aim to get as close to destination and then drop loops and rank by fastest and fewest connections. Tralee to Rosslare is one that really tests the system

I've been impressed by the systems abilty to get a routes from A to B its given me routes I wouldn't think of it has a problem with trains passing through midnight, that said Cork Belfast at 19:30 overnight in Dublin and onwards by the 7:35 ex Dublin is a legitimate journey

The software used is irrelevant its how its programmed (cgi is dead, asp is well $oft php or a java based is where most are going), Ryanair don't do connections try Lufthansa who allow you to book through journeys. There is money involved and contracts not signed but a new journey planner system is being sought out

Derek Wheeler · 27-09-2006, 20:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The software used is irrelevant its how its programmed,

Is that not what Ive suggested in my above post.

Quote:

All very basic stuff that requires an initial dose of human commomsense.

Software only does what a human programmes it to do. I do know that daft journies like this one can be easily removed from IE's existing journey planner. The "bug" in the Journey planner is human error.

bigjim · 27-09-2006, 20:33

I suppose getting IE and BE to get together to have a combined bus and rail journey planner is too much to ask?!

Derek Wheeler · 27-09-2006, 20:35

Quote:

CGI is dead

When Ryanair move away from it, I'll accept that opinion. They currently earn an absolute fortune from it via online bookings.

Derek Wheeler · 27-09-2006, 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigjim

I suppose getting IE and BE to get together to have a combined bus and rail journey planner is too much to ask?!

This would be a very easy facility to provide, if it wasn't entrusted to the civil service. Its also related to the mess that is integrated ticketing. Its cost us 9 million so far and is still nowhere near roll out. A combo of backward culture and poor governance.

While Ireland apparently prides itself on being the IT capital of Europe, its indigenous IT output within state controlled bodies is a disaster. Think Garda computer system and the HSE's P-Pars system. State bodies are hopeless at implementing efficient IT solutions. The proof is out there and no amount of defense can rescue them.

Mark Gleeson · 27-09-2006, 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

When Ryanair move away from it, I'll accept that opinion. They currently earn an absolute fortune from it via online bookings.

It works cost a fortune to fix, it can't do through bookings thats a huge weakness

I know what IT solution IE are eager to buy in and its fairly impressive but I'd bet money it will by default offer werid journeys, its a matter of taste really

Mark Hennessy · 27-09-2006, 21:27

Surely all that is needed is a check to see if the two journeys are on the same date? If they aren't then dont show them unless an explicit overnight option has been ticked by the user

Mark Gleeson · 27-09-2006, 21:36

Then you got an issue if IE decide to run trains at 2am which they have done on 3 occasions this summer

I see the problem as the excessive layover not the early morning

It already has a time restriction http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey...lidElements=To

ccos · 28-09-2006, 06:49

Its not unusual to get quoted Train journeys in other European countries with long middle of the night layovers.

markpb · 28-09-2006, 08:45

At the risk of being pedantic, CGI is a standard (the Common Gateway Interface) for passing data between users and web serers. ASP, PHP, Java servlets and even C implement CGI. It's not dead at all, just not as visible as it was.

Oisin88 · 28-09-2006, 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

It already has a time restriction http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey...lidElements=To

Tried the link.

You can choose direct trains.
If you choose leaving Galway before midnight it still gives you the overnight option.

I am concerned about Olga the German backpacker choosing the overnight train, I suppose.

James Shields · 28-09-2006, 23:30

I'm sure we should ban computer geekery just as much as we ban technical train info, but...

There's nothing wrong with CGI. It's a perfectly valid way to build a website, albiet more expensive and time consuming to maintain than some of the newer technologies, particularly if you need to scale it across multiple servers.

I wouldn't build a new site out of it, but having invested heavily in developing a flight booking site on CGI, I wouldn't throw it all away as long as it;s working.

Ryanair don't do through booking. That's a business decision, and nothing to do with the technology they build their website on. If they took through bookings, they would presumably become liable if they cause you to miss your connecting flight.

CGI can be used as the interface for ASP, PHP, et all, but nowadays they mostly interact with the web server at a lower level, allowing a greater level of integration and performance.

James Shields · 28-09-2006, 23:38

How about this one...

Tell it you want to go from Skerries to Pearse at 7PM on a Saturday and see how many changes you have to make.

I wonder what ticket you need for that journey?

Colm Donoghue · 29-09-2006, 08:38

Marko,
would I be alright on a short hop to try going Rush+lusk -> Drog -> Connolly
(if I printed the timetable out)?
Well by the rule book anyway. I'd be fairly confident I couldn't be convicted

Mark Gleeson · 29-09-2006, 09:01

If its the fastest way from A to B and it is offered it is would be valid, I am assuming you do the Drogheda Dublin leg by enterprise

Quote:

5.1.2 Tickets which do not state a route are only valid for the most direct joumey

Question is define direct, Dublin Limerick via Nenagh is shorter distance wise does that mean if I'm on the 9am ex Dublin I'll take the Nenagh connection and arrive 30 minutes after the Limerick Junction one, both are valid in fact

We looked at Waterford Bray last year, it was marginally faster go via Rosslare at one specific time

27-09-2006, 17:53	#1
Oisin88 Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Dublin Posts: 608	Best Train Journeys on the IE timetable Would you do this: From Station: Galway 2110 To Station: Dublin Heuston 0710 Journey Time: 10 hour(s) 0 minutes Number of Changes: 1 Came up on the www.irishrail.ie timetable when I looked for Galway-Dublin Services? Will they, like Iberia for flights through Madrid that involve an overnight layover, put you up in the Radisson near the train station in Athlone for the night?

27-09-2006, 18:46	#3
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	But its still a damn good laugh. Anyway, a bug is only an excuse that can last a reasonable period of time. Should be fixed immediately. Makes the country look stupid. Its a case of taking the option out of the database. Last edited by Derek Wheeler : 27-09-2006 at 18:48.

27-09-2006, 20:20	#6
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The system doesn't store preassigned routes, thats not the way to do business since you would have to recalc several million options given the number of stations and choices its not feasible, its a recursive problem known as the traveling salesman which is only practically solvable if you have conditions. its real easy if there is a direct train It has a list of all trains running and combines the timetables together to get a result by connecting trains together based on assessing all possibilties at all stops with an aim to get as close to destination and then drop loops and rank by fastest and fewest connections. Tralee to Rosslare is one that really tests the system I've been impressed by the systems abilty to get a routes from A to B its given me routes I wouldn't think of it has a problem with trains passing through midnight, that said Cork Belfast at 19:30 overnight in Dublin and onwards by the 7:35 ex Dublin is a legitimate journey The software used is irrelevant its how its programmed (cgi is dead, asp is well $oft php or a java based is where most are going), Ryanair don't do connections try Lufthansa who allow you to book through journeys. There is money involved and contracts not signed but a new journey planner system is being sought out Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 27-09-2006 at 20:26.

27-09-2006, 21:36	#13
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Then you got an issue if IE decide to run trains at 2am which they have done on 3 occasions this summer I see the problem as the excessive layover not the early morning It already has a time restriction http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey...lidElements=To Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 27-09-2006 at 21:39.

28-09-2006, 08:45	#15
markpb Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 541	At the risk of being pedantic, CGI is a standard (the Common Gateway Interface) for passing data between users and web serers. ASP, PHP, Java servlets and even C implement CGI. It's not dead at all, just not as visible as it was. Last edited by markpb : 28-09-2006 at 08:47.

27-09-2006, 18:35	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	That has been admitted to us as being a bug and a new journey planner thing is currently under evaluation

27-09-2006, 19:52	#5
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	Its a database of the existing timetable. Each route, service, station and connection is assigned a code. Database search returns all possible journies. Its ASP (Active Server Pages) The rediculous journey quoted by Oisin can be taken out of the database very quickly. Obviously IE have not instructed their IT people to do that. No need for a new journey planner. Ryanair use CGI (Common Gateway Interface) Similar gadget. Its not rocket science. All very basic stuff that requires an initial dose of human commomsense.

27-09-2006, 20:33	#8
bigjim Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 43	I suppose getting IE and BE to get together to have a combined bus and rail journey planner is too much to ask?!

27-09-2006, 21:27	#12
Mark Hennessy Membership Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Maynooth Posts: 1,116	Surely all that is needed is a check to see if the two journeys are on the same date? If they aren't then dont show them unless an explicit overnight option has been ticked by the user

28-09-2006, 06:49	#14
ccos Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Kazbegi Posts: 281	Its not unusual to get quoted Train journeys in other European countries with long middle of the night layovers.

28-09-2006, 23:30	#17
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	I'm sure we should ban computer geekery just as much as we ban technical train info, but... There's nothing wrong with CGI. It's a perfectly valid way to build a website, albiet more expensive and time consuming to maintain than some of the newer technologies, particularly if you need to scale it across multiple servers. I wouldn't build a new site out of it, but having invested heavily in developing a flight booking site on CGI, I wouldn't throw it all away as long as it;s working. Ryanair don't do through booking. That's a business decision, and nothing to do with the technology they build their website on. If they took through bookings, they would presumably become liable if they cause you to miss your connecting flight. CGI can be used as the interface for ASP, PHP, et all, but nowadays they mostly interact with the web server at a lower level, allowing a greater level of integration and performance.

28-09-2006, 23:38	#18
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	How about this one... Tell it you want to go from Skerries to Pearse at 7PM on a Saturday and see how many changes you have to make. I wonder what ticket you need for that journey?

29-09-2006, 08:38	#19
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	Marko, would I be alright on a short hop to try going Rush+lusk -> Drog -> Connolly (if I printed the timetable out)? Well by the rule book anyway. I'd be fairly confident I couldn't be convicted

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