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Unread 25-05-2015, 14:42   #1
Jamie2k9
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Default Additional Platform at Limerick J

An additional platform will be put in at Limerick Junction as part of improvements to Cork services according to Barry Kenny on Newstalk earlier.

Long overdue to allow both directions connect at the same time.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 25-05-2015 at 14:45.
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Unread 25-05-2015, 14:56   #2
berneyarms
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Which show was he on do you know?

Good news if it happens.
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Unread 25-05-2015, 15:03   #3
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
Which show was he on do you know?

Good news if it happens.
The Lunchtime Show (part 2) near the start. On the playing bar across the top of the screen click on the H part of (Healy) and it starts around there.

Main points were:
Start of continuous improvements of times
Dublin-Cork standard service of 2 hours at least
Additional Limerick J platform
Towards end of 2016 for improvements across all services to Cork

https://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/
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Unread 26-05-2015, 03:27   #4
dowlingm
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If this means the fabled east platform (which won't be cheap I'd imagine given the need to allow transfers and thus a tunnel or overpass) then it will be interesting to see if they will put in a bay for Waterford, significantly reducing movements across the mainline and hopefully tightening the schedule.
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Unread 26-05-2015, 09:40   #5
comcor
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This could potentially make a huge difference to rail connectivity between Cork and Limerick, taking all connections below the 90 minutes mark (perhaps lower again if track improvements reduce the Cork-Limerick Junction times). It should also vastly increase the number of connections.

I hope Irish Rail are prepared to market that once these improvements are in place.
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Unread 26-05-2015, 14:22   #6
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
If this means the fabled east platform (which won't be cheap I'd imagine given the need to allow transfers and thus a tunnel or overpass) then it will be interesting to see if they will put in a bay for Waterford, significantly reducing movements across the mainline and hopefully tightening the schedule.
Realistically possible to make things easier however with a second platform it take away the current (average) of 15 minute gap between Cork/Dublin services connecting to Limerick which hold's it up.
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Unread 27-05-2015, 09:16   #7
ACustomer
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I have huge doubts about the cost-effectiveness of a new down road main platform at Limerick Junction. It will mean that Dublin-Limerick and Limerick-Cork connections will involve going up and down stairs or lifts (sometimes with heavy luggage), whereas these connections are all cross-platform at present.

In theory, having up and down mainline trains serve the Junction more or less simultaneously will mean that Limerick-Cork and Cork-Limerick connections can be a little faster. However re-instating a facing crossover from Down to Up main just where there used to be one North of the square crossing would enable a tighter fit between up and down main trains, and maintain cross-platform connectivity, all for a comparatively trivial expense. Of course this would mean admitting that the track simplification done for the recent CTC scheme was overkill.

As for a Waterford bay on the down side, the track geometry (i.e. the acute angle of the crossing between the Waterford and Cork lines), make this virtually impossible. A second bay platform alongside the existing one would be relatively simple and would enable greater flexibility of operation of Waterford trains and would make through Waterford-Limerick operations much easier.

At present one can load and dispatch a train within 2 minutes of the arrival of a connecting train, something an operation which will take at least 5 minutes if people have to haul themselves and their luggage up and down stairs/lifts/escalators.

I can think of better ways to spend the money involved in this proposal.
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Unread 27-05-2015, 10:48   #8
Mark Gleeson
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Down platform is required, has been for several years.

As the Dublin Cork schedule is developing it will consistently find trains passing at Limerick Junction and the lack of a platform adds delays
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Unread 27-05-2015, 12:39   #9
comcor
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As you say, there's no way a bay platform for Waterford could be added at the back of the down platform because of the angle of the tracks.

I presume having a V-shaped platform is also out as there would be safety issues involved in terminating just before crossing the mainline.

The only real options would seem to be a V-shape with a terminating track (which would preclude through-running trains at a later date, or the ludicrously expensive idea of grade-separating the tracks.

I would be surprised if there was any investment at all in the Waterford line. There are too many doubts over its future, which could make an investment worthless. Of course, without any real investment, it is doomed to closure eventually.
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Unread 27-05-2015, 13:30   #10
dowlingm
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comcor - I wouldn't be thinking about having the platform on the line facing the crossing, just a short spur into a bay platform. This would then result in only Limerick goods wagons to and from Waterford and the odd non-revenue/charter train crossing the diamond, which I understand aren't the cheapest yokes to keep in good order. Unfortunately the time for these reworking hijinks was probably best when the cabins were closed, so that the new arrangements would have been much simpler in implementation.
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Unread 27-05-2015, 19:52   #11
Colm Moore
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Current layout (track layout may not be up to date.):
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V2,586544,639080,11,3
http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/31...50150/-8.19942

Limerick Junction
* Platform 1 - 318.2 metres
* Platform 2 (Bay) - 276.1 metres (note: can also be worked as two separate 90 metre platforms)
* Platform 3 - 166.4 metres

I think cross-platform access is important. It would be useful to know what percentage of passengers are transfer passengers. I suspect there are a lot more of them that passengers starting / finishing at LJ.

Putting in lifts and a bridge would probably cost in the order of €300,000. I'll put a number on a platform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACustomer View Post
As for a Waterford bay on the down side, the track geometry (i.e. the acute angle of the crossing between the Waterford and Cork lines), make this virtually impossible.
Hardly. There is no obligation to have the platforms perfectly parallel. One simply puts in a 4-car platform near the new Cork-bound platform.

Quote:
A second bay platform alongside the existing one would be relatively simple and would enable greater flexibility of operation of Waterford trains and would make through Waterford-Limerick operations much easier.
You might be dealing with a wonky™ crossing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by comcor View Post
I presume having a V-shaped platform is also out as there would be safety issues involved in terminating just before crossing the mainline.

The only real options would seem to be a V-shape with a terminating track (which would preclude through-running trains at a later date, or the ludicrously expensive idea of grade-separating the tracks.
Works perfectly well at Howth Junction.

Quote:
I would be surprised if there was any investment at all in the Waterford line. There are too many doubts over its future, which could make an investment worthless. Of course, without any real investment, it is doomed to closure eventually.
Spending loads of money on something isn't always the best investment. Investing smaller amounts smartly could be a lot more useful.
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Last edited by Colm Moore : 27-05-2015 at 20:01.
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Unread 27-05-2015, 20:40   #12
Jamie2k9
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Putting in lifts and a bridge would probably cost in the order of €300,000.
Sure IE must be flushed wtih cash as they felt such investment was warranted at Charleville late last year. Unless there was political meddling I really question who made such decisions. Such a waste to benefit so few.

On a general investment note, one would hope that IE will look for cash to upgrade parts on many routes across the network if they qualify for it out of this "connectivity fund" from the Aer Lingus sale.
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Unread 27-05-2015, 20:47   #13
Inniskeen
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If a 2nd platform is provided at Limerick Junction, it will be a simple affair probably serving trains travelling towards Cork only. Platform arrangements in respect of Waterford and Limerick trains are most unlikely to change although a second terminal platform would be relatively easy to provide if a more useful service were to be provided on the Waterford line.

Big disadvantage will be the loss of cross-platform interchange for passengers travelling from Dublin to Limerick or Waterord. Ideally the Limerick (and perhaps Waterford platform) would be between the mainlines thus facilitating cross platform interchange in all directions. This would be afundamental change and require a major re-build which I think is not going to happen. Existing signalling scheme envisages 2nd platform opposite the existing mainline platform.
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Unread 29-05-2015, 14:45   #14
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Presumably at least some of the existing sidings will have to make way. I suppose permanent way trains could park up in Thurles or in Charleville.

Inniskeen, if that sort of money was on offer, could look at rebuilding the N24 bridge to (at least) 3 track wide and extending the existing siding as a running track curving SE keeping south of the N24. Could have direct Clonmel-Dublin service while serving the Junction!
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Unread 01-06-2015, 16:21   #15
Jamie2k9
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Presumably at least some of the existing sidings will have to make way. I suppose permanent way trains could park up in Thurles or in Charleville.
There is 3 (think 4) sidings at Limerick J, There is a decent gap between those sidings and the down Cork line which would be a good size of a platform but possible a little tight however that could be addressed by moving the down Cork line closer to the up Dublin as there is a big gap between them as running lines.
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