Apartheid alive and well on the Kerry line..

[Jferb]

I took the 13:15 from Tralee to Dublin (change at Mallow) today 2 weeks ago (it's a service I use regularly on different days of the week). Our tin can was 30 minutes late arriving in Mallow (apparently due to brake trouble) and low-and-behold, the connecting train from Cork had left without us!

God forbid that the Cork train would be delayed by 20 minutes (we should arrive in Mallow 10 minutes before the Cork train), so instead it was allowed depart on time, and we were subjected to an additional, unnecessary 40 minute delay.

So, an hour later than timetabled, onto the next Cork train! And as if that would be the end of it too! That train stuttered into Heuston an additional 35 minutes late (without explanation!). So instead of arriving in Heuston at 17:15, we ended up arriving at nearly 18:50!!

So, my question is, is there an official IE policy regarding timetabled connections and what happens if one of the connecting trains runs late? I've been late arriving in Mallow many a time before, but never had the experience of the connecting train leaving without us! I think it's grossly unfair that we should be further inconvenienced for the benefit of not disrupting Cork passengers.

To be fair, I will mention 2 redeeming facts on IE's behalf! Firstly, they were quick to hand out refund forms to everyone. In the past, I've had to go hunting for them myself. Secondly, everyone was offered free refreshments in the cafe in Mallow Station..

[Thomas Ralph]

Well when you consider the number of people on the Cork-Dublin as against the number of Kerry line passengers, perhaps it is better not to delay the majority.

[Mark Gleeson]

The question here really, is how long do you hold the Cork train for? 5, 10, 15 minutes when do you stop? Of course if the Tralee train was still broken at the time the Cork train arrived in Mallow, there was no idea when it might arrive

Had the Tralee train been under 20 minutes late the connection would almost certainly been held, resulting in a 10 minute delay to the Cork train

If you hold the Cork train for more than 15 minutes you cause a massive ripple effect the whole way to Heuston resulting in delays to multiple trains leaving potentially many thousands late, given the Cork train was the 14:30 Cork Dublin this is especially true since it works the 18:00 back to Cork, every evening train out of Heuston would have been delayed if that leaves late

The sad fact there is a cold logical machine which makes the decision, whichever choice results in the least delay which on average is the best for all passengers

The root issue here is the fact the train broke down, addressing that will pay much greater dividends, we don't want to reach the point where there is need to know what the connection policy is since the trains are always ontime

You are entitled to 50% refund on the journey, getting further delayed en route is plain unfortunate

[Mark Gleeson]

Information has arrived this morning, the Cork train will be held for not more than 10 minutes, which matches my original post

As I have said, the issue at hand is poor punctuality, fix that instead of worrying about missed connections and everyone benefits

[Jferb]

Thanks for that Mark. Yeah, the sooner our tin-cans are replaced by the new IC railcars, the better. Assuming the brakes on them are more reliable!

I understand the logical argument about not delaying the Cork train too long. I guess part of my annoyance stems from the fact that back in the 'bad old days', there was a direct service from Tralee to Dublin at 13:55. Then, as a direct result of introduction of the new hourly service from Cork to Dublin, the direct services from Tralee to Dublin were halved from 2 to a mere 1 direct train each way per day! The only direct route in the country where the service is going backwards!!

So you can forgive my displeasure at turning up in Mallow to find no train...

[Mark Gleeson]

But you now have a train every 2 hours to Dublin, while still having the peak direct services, its a trade off the greater range of trains has made getting the train a lot more attractive. There are now 8 trains a day Dublin Tralee in the past it was only 4, incidentally the direct trains are slower than the connecting ones by 2 minutes!

We don't like late trains, but we equally know that sometimes holding a connection may lead to absolute chaos elsewhere so its not held leading to the dispair of those who needed the connection.

The punctuality issue will resolve a heap of problems, the general lack of urgency on the ground is the problem

[ACustomer]

Jferb: was your experience at a missed connection just an exceptionally unlucky one, or are the DMUs used on the Kerry services generally unreliable?

While you mention that direct services are reduced to one a day, there are 8 other departures from Tralee daily which give Dublin conections at Mallow. This is a frequency much improved on anything seen before.

Referring to the trains as "tin cans" does not improve the credibility of your complaint - at least in my book.

[Jferb]

That's true Mark, but other lines such as Sligo (a slightly smaller town than Tralee) are getting a 2 hourly direct service to Dublin! In the past, trains from Tralee that didn't go to Dublin, went direct to Cork. Now most of them terminate in Mallow! And I think it's safe to say that not many people who use this service wish to terminate in Mallow (no offence to Mallow)!!

It's true that these new indirect services are pretty fast, sometimes faster than the old direct services. But I presume this is because, with more trains running from Limerick Junction to Heuston, there are less stops than there used to be.

I'm not too concerned with changing at Mallow myself (as long as the timetable is maintained!). The main issue is with older and infirm people. I know of many people who will not get an indirect service, unless absolutely necessary, especially if it entails crossing over the rail-line. They just want the comfort of getting on the train at the beginning of their journey and getting off at the end!

Basically, I think IE could do just a little better than a mere one direct service out of 8 each way, each day..

[Mark Gleeson]

If you have spent 90 minutes on a 2700 you won't have good things to say about it, spartan doesn't describe it

Its an aluminum can actually and the structural engineering behind it isn't too dissimilar to a drinks can

Reliability isn't great, a lot better since they left Dublin, which has more to do with an easier life than anything else. Could be better.

General punctuality is lax no urgency, every second does count

[Mark Gleeson]

For Dublin bound connections should be cross platform 2/3 no steps etc. Mallow has a wheelchair accessible bridge. All non direct trains are fully accessible, the direct ones aren't yet

Tralee is likely to get another set of direct trains to restore the previous case, there really isn't space on the network currently to run more, we do have to live with commercial realities

What I'd really like to see is more direct Cork Mallow Tralee services without a change, there is good business Cork Tralee line, remember not everything is Dublin bound.

We do have an aversion to connections in Ireland, that was justified in the past but as the frequencies increase and reach a clockface arrangement they will become a unavoidable element. The Swiss have the best rail service in Europe, based entirely on good connections. It works since the Swiss are obsessed with punctuality, thats the challenge for Irish Rail

[Jferb]

ACustomer, it could well have been (and hopefully was!) an exceptionally unlucky experience. I've been up and down between Tralee and Dublin regularly for well over a decade now, and this is the first time that the scheduled connecting Cork-Dublin train has left Mallow without me!

Again, I don't argue over the issue of improved frequency, but the least we could have expected was the maintaining of the two daily direct services each way that we always had!!

Finally, I don't see how the labelling of the trains we have as 'tin cans' affects the credibility of my argument! They are commuter railcars, totally unsuited for IC use. For years, I was bemoaning the ancient Cravens we were stuck with, years after they had disappeared from elsewhere on the network, but I'd nearly rather have them back now, than what we have to put up with at the moment! There has been a lot of noise about them running on the Sligo line and I think the vast majority of Sligo customers would agree with my description of them...

[Mark Gleeson]

They never got to Sligo, drivers refused to drive them on the ground they where so rubbish

[ACustomer]

An interesting point was made above about convenient cross-platform connection in the Up direction at Mallow. Last year I was on a Down Cork train and we pulled into the Up platform to give a very convenient change. Is this done often?

When Limerick Junction gets its new platform on the Down side, I daresay there will be complaints about the inevitable trudge up and down steps or lifts. Can't please everyone...

[Mark Gleeson]

At certain stations, if a request is made and it is possible to route the train to the more accessible platform, this is frequently done at Skerries

A number of stations Dublin Belfast north of the border have the ability to do this is listed in the accessibilty guide.

[Jferb]

The new over-bridge at Mallow has made a big difference in accessibility terms. Unfortunately, no bright spark at IE has thought it prudent to extend the covered section of platform 2/3 to connect with the over-bridge!

A few shelters on platform 2/3, akin to the ones on the platform at Limerick Junction would probably be expecting too much...

[dowlingm]

Comparing Sligo line to Tralee line is pretty apples and oranges. If Connolly-Mullingar-Galway was run I bet at least some Sligo services would become connecting rather than direct.

[Thomas J Stamp]

ok this thread is dead.

who's gonna call it?