29K still on Sligo and not even cleaned

dowlingm · 09-09-2012, 01:56

Until IE finally fits Selective Door Opening to the 22K fleet, permitting 6 car operation even to stations where short platforms will not meet all doors, there's only so much can be done if the capacity of a 3 car can't meet demand given that the single track won't permit much if any increase in services, especially when one considers the additional driver cost will swallow much of any additional revenue.

sublimity · 09-09-2012, 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Until IE finally fits Selective Door Opening to the 22K fleet,

But when is this going to happen???? Nobody seems to know! Can anyone find this out?

Inniskeen · 09-09-2012, 14:36

Maybe the NTA should apply the proverbial boot in the rear and force Irish Rail to devise a solution. Is selective door opening really the only answer ? As on other lines a 3 car ICR is not able to deal with the busier services while not many non commuter services will fill a full six car set. Maybe dropping two or three six-car sets down to four cars and using the surplus vehicles to create further 4-car sets might be an idea worth considering and be useful on other routes as well.

If neither 4-car ICRS or SDO can be implemented then perhaps the NTA should insist that where services are consistenly overcrowded, then either the timetable should be modified to provide additional services or additional staff should be allocated to ensure that passnegers do not have access to the rear vehicle of a six coach formation. Obviously the latter would involve the safety quango, but it is simply not acceptable that short haul suburban units are substituted on Intercity services simply to provide extra floor space for passengers to stand or indeed sit !

James Howard · 09-09-2012, 14:55

This seems to be a daily occurrence. The 17:00 from Sligo was operated by an 8-car 29k on Friday. I presume this was the 13:05 down train returning. 8 cars seems a little extravagant for either of these services - are they really that busy? Certainly the 17:00 from Sligo wasn't terribly busy at Edgeworthstown.

Inniskeen · 09-09-2012, 16:38

1305 had about 270 passengers leaving Connolly.

James Howard · 09-09-2012, 18:15

That is incredible business for a mid-day service on the Sligo line considering that the are coming from what was about 4 or 5 daily return trips 5 years ago. But it sounds like this service is running with a 29k for capacity reasons as 270 is well beyond the capacity of a 3 car 22k and the 6 car set is busy doing runs out to Maynooth.

I'm surprised that Irish Rail haven't just said they would all be grand standing to Mullingar.

ACustomer · 09-09-2012, 19:46

Iniskeen has suggested paring down a some 6 car 22k sets to 4 car and presumably using the displaced intermediate vechicles to increase 3 car sets to 4 car.

The problem with this is that 6-car sets are too few in number and there are loads of 3-car sets, with the result that lots of trains routinely run as two 3-car formations with resulting problems for catering and ticket inspection. A better solution might be to remove the intermediate vehicles from (say) six 3-car sets and re-form them into six two car sets plus six 4- car sets. The 2-car sets woiuld be fine for the WRC, some Kerry line services and Limerick Junction shuttles, as well as for occasional strengthening of 3-car trains. The 4-cars would ease the problems on the DSE. You might even manage 5-car trains on the DSE (3+2). It would in principle be possible to have 22k trains with 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 cars (subject to platform constraints).

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09-09-2012, 01:56	#1
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	Until IE finally fits Selective Door Opening to the 22K fleet, permitting 6 car operation even to stations where short platforms will not meet all doors, there's only so much can be done if the capacity of a 3 car can't meet demand given that the single track won't permit much if any increase in services, especially when one considers the additional driver cost will swallow much of any additional revenue.

09-09-2012, 14:36	#3
Inniskeen Really Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 951	Maybe the NTA should apply the proverbial boot in the rear and force Irish Rail to devise a solution. Is selective door opening really the only answer ? As on other lines a 3 car ICR is not able to deal with the busier services while not many non commuter services will fill a full six car set. Maybe dropping two or three six-car sets down to four cars and using the surplus vehicles to create further 4-car sets might be an idea worth considering and be useful on other routes as well. If neither 4-car ICRS or SDO can be implemented then perhaps the NTA should insist that where services are consistenly overcrowded, then either the timetable should be modified to provide additional services or additional staff should be allocated to ensure that passnegers do not have access to the rear vehicle of a six coach formation. Obviously the latter would involve the safety quango, but it is simply not acceptable that short haul suburban units are substituted on Intercity services simply to provide extra floor space for passengers to stand or indeed sit !

09-09-2012, 14:55	#4
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	This seems to be a daily occurrence. The 17:00 from Sligo was operated by an 8-car 29k on Friday. I presume this was the 13:05 down train returning. 8 cars seems a little extravagant for either of these services - are they really that busy? Certainly the 17:00 from Sligo wasn't terribly busy at Edgeworthstown.

09-09-2012, 16:38	#5
Inniskeen Really Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 951	1305 had about 270 passengers leaving Connolly.

09-09-2012, 18:15	#6
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	That is incredible business for a mid-day service on the Sligo line considering that the are coming from what was about 4 or 5 daily return trips 5 years ago. But it sounds like this service is running with a 29k for capacity reasons as 270 is well beyond the capacity of a 3 car 22k and the 6 car set is busy doing runs out to Maynooth. I'm surprised that Irish Rail haven't just said they would all be grand standing to Mullingar.

09-09-2012, 19:46	#7
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	Iniskeen has suggested paring down a some 6 car 22k sets to 4 car and presumably using the displaced intermediate vechicles to increase 3 car sets to 4 car. The problem with this is that 6-car sets are too few in number and there are loads of 3-car sets, with the result that lots of trains routinely run as two 3-car formations with resulting problems for catering and ticket inspection. A better solution might be to remove the intermediate vehicles from (say) six 3-car sets and re-form them into six two car sets plus six 4- car sets. The 2-car sets woiuld be fine for the WRC, some Kerry line services and Limerick Junction shuttles, as well as for occasional strengthening of 3-car trains. The 4-cars would ease the problems on the DSE. You might even manage 5-car trains on the DSE (3+2). It would in principle be possible to have 22k trains with 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9 cars (subject to platform constraints).