Capacity Kildare South

huggy · 12-10-2018, 07:58

So based on the evidence presented, despite Kildare south commuter trains being packed to capacity(not able to board 17.30 last Friday at 17.25) and a huge influx of new houses being developed, Irish rail have zero foresight for an impending problem, standard IR/semi state lack of accountability

ACustomer · 12-10-2018, 08:29

huggy: don't put all the blame on Irish Rail. The National Transport Authority has arguably an even greater responsibility. Also the Government Departments of Housing/Local Government (or whatever they are called nowadays) and Transport all have ministers sitting around the same table.

No matter how wise Irish Rail might be, they cannot be held responsible for the lack of co-ordination at a higher level.

huggy · 12-10-2018, 09:21

Fair Point AC

Mark Gleeson · 15-10-2018, 09:04

The deal is the 2700 will return. They will cover Limerick and Ballina shuttle services. The 2700 is for more suited to regional work and may release an ICR or two

This will release the 2800 back to Dublin, that provides all current 4 coach trains at peak to move to 6 or 8 and may displace the ICR off the Maynooth line for use elsewhere.

The Phoenix Park tunnel service added 10-11 coaches to the morning/evening peak, but thats mostly entirely used up now. Not bad for a service Irish Rail said no one would use.

The original plan was to have DART services from Hazelhatch by now but the funding has never been released.

There are plans to order 41 more ICR coaches and up to 300 DART/hybrid coaches, but that depends on the NTA providing funding just to issue a tender let alone sign a contract.

Jamie2k9 · 15-10-2018, 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The deal is the 2700 will return. They will cover Limerick and Ballina shuttle services. The 2700 is for more suited to regional work and may release an ICR or two

This will release the 2800 back to Dublin, that provides all current 4 coach trains at peak to move to 6 or 8 and may displace the ICR off the Maynooth line for use elsewhere.

The Phoenix Park tunnel service added 10-11 coaches to the morning/evening peak, but thats mostly entirely used up now. Not bad for a service Irish Rail said no one would use.

The original plan was to have DART services from Hazelhatch by now but the funding has never been released.

There are plans to order 41 more ICR coaches and up to 300 DART/hybrid coaches, but that depends on the NTA providing funding just to issue a tender let alone sign a contract.

Taught it had been decided against in favor of 300 hybrid. If they did go for the 300 and possibly a few more then its 37+ 8 car units should ensure ICRs are completely removed off Maynooth, M3, N Commuter and PPT service.

Wonder if they would consider ordering a larger hybrid order with a modified config internally and fully diesel and operate Sligo/Longford/Rosslare and remove the ICRs fully out of Connolly if on board service levels are similar to 22s. Prob 20 units in Connolly at the minute and would cater for Heuston growth long term.

berneyarms · 15-10-2018, 20:01

As far as I’m aware the 2700 refurb is on hold and may not even happen, and I am pretty sure that the 41 extra ICR coaches was vetoed by the NTA.

Rolling stock (or more precisely the lack of any new additions) is fast becoming the biggest issue facing Irish Rail and the NTA’s lack of action is coming home to bite.

We are looking like nothing until at least the end of 2020 and maybe even 2021.

An absolute disgrace.

Mark Gleeson · 16-10-2018, 15:11

The 41 extra was the fastest solution as Irish Rail could have leveraged the existing contracts to buy more from Rotem, but the window on this was quite tight. The ICR is a known quantity so it would be a quick build to service time and all the paperwork with the CRR could be avoided.

The Hybrid thing is making progress quickly, we have spotted Irish Rail management on the walk around at the Innotrans in Berlin and know they are very interested in the offering of a specific company. We ain't fans a straight electric option is better, cheaper and we could have Maynooth Connolly wired up several years before any train would be here.

The 2700 fleet, well to get all the information IE want several hundred euro for an FOI so there is something afoot, a train dumped in a shed doesn't generate paperwork so there clearly is a lot of work gone on in the background.

ThomasJ · 15-10-2018, 10:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by huggy

So based on the evidence presented, despite Kildare south commuter trains being packed to capacity(not able to board 17.30 last Friday at 17.25) and a huge influx of new houses being developed, Irish rail have zero foresight for an impending problem, standard IR/semi state lack of accountability

In fairness, more often than not , people are not able to board trains on the docklands M3 line, and where used in the Maynooth line and Wexford is struggling

Maybe this is more down to the trains being used on those lines.

ACustomer · 15-10-2018, 14:22

Mark Gleeson:

Quote:

There are plans to order 41 more ICR coaches and up to 300 DART/hybrid coaches, but that depends on the NTA providing funding just to issue a tender let alone sign a contract.

What you imply is almost that the NTA would ask for a tender before deciding on whether to have a programme of rolling stock purchases. I thought that the way things should work would be to (a) get approval for a strategic investment programme while having some reasonable idea of the likely cost; (b) select a few preferred bidders (not difficult there are just a few big railway rolling stock builders) and (c) then go to tender. Has any of this been done? Does the NTA even know what it wants? Do you need to spend vast sums on consultants before going to tender? I'm afraid the answer to the last question may be "yes" if senior management in the transport sector is clueless.

Not helped by a total lack of any political direction.

James Howard · 15-10-2018, 16:29

The plans for 300 hybrids and in particular the 40 odd ICR cars have been floating about for a long time. They sound to me more like notions than actual plans. Given how long the saga of the 26x 2700 units has been going on, I wouldn't be holding my breath for things to get any better soon.

Anyway, given Irish Rail's habit of parking up relatively fresh rolling stock that they've taken a dislike to because they've got shinier things to play with now, who's to say that spending the guts of a billion euro on new rolling stock would help matters much?

comcor · 15-10-2018, 16:40

If and when those units show up, are there plans to cascade some of the other units out of Dublin? Cobh has also been struggling with capacity this year, particularly because demand can be so uneven because of cruise liners. On the 100 or so days there is a cruise liner in, I've hear complaints of morning commuters on stations after Cobh being unable to board.

15-10-2018, 09:04	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The deal is the 2700 will return. They will cover Limerick and Ballina shuttle services. The 2700 is for more suited to regional work and may release an ICR or two This will release the 2800 back to Dublin, that provides all current 4 coach trains at peak to move to 6 or 8 and may displace the ICR off the Maynooth line for use elsewhere. The Phoenix Park tunnel service added 10-11 coaches to the morning/evening peak, but thats mostly entirely used up now. Not bad for a service Irish Rail said no one would use. The original plan was to have DART services from Hazelhatch by now but the funding has never been released. There are plans to order 41 more ICR coaches and up to 300 DART/hybrid coaches, but that depends on the NTA providing funding just to issue a tender let alone sign a contract. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

16-10-2018, 15:11	#7
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The 41 extra was the fastest solution as Irish Rail could have leveraged the existing contracts to buy more from Rotem, but the window on this was quite tight. The ICR is a known quantity so it would be a quick build to service time and all the paperwork with the CRR could be avoided. The Hybrid thing is making progress quickly, we have spotted Irish Rail management on the walk around at the Innotrans in Berlin and know they are very interested in the offering of a specific company. We ain't fans a straight electric option is better, cheaper and we could have Maynooth Connolly wired up several years before any train would be here. The 2700 fleet, well to get all the information IE want several hundred euro for an FOI so there is something afoot, a train dumped in a shed doesn't generate paperwork so there clearly is a lot of work gone on in the background. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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12-10-2018, 07:58	#1
huggy New to the board Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 9	So based on the evidence presented, despite Kildare south commuter trains being packed to capacity(not able to board 17.30 last Friday at 17.25) and a huge influx of new houses being developed, Irish rail have zero foresight for an impending problem, standard IR/semi state lack of accountability

12-10-2018, 08:29	#2
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	huggy: don't put all the blame on Irish Rail. The National Transport Authority has arguably an even greater responsibility. Also the Government Departments of Housing/Local Government (or whatever they are called nowadays) and Transport all have ministers sitting around the same table. No matter how wise Irish Rail might be, they cannot be held responsible for the lack of co-ordination at a higher level.

12-10-2018, 09:21	#3
huggy New to the board Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 9	Fair Point AC

15-10-2018, 20:01	#6
berneyarms Really Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 602	As far as I’m aware the 2700 refurb is on hold and may not even happen, and I am pretty sure that the 41 extra ICR coaches was vetoed by the NTA. Rolling stock (or more precisely the lack of any new additions) is fast becoming the biggest issue facing Irish Rail and the NTA’s lack of action is coming home to bite. We are looking like nothing until at least the end of 2020 and maybe even 2021. An absolute disgrace.

15-10-2018, 16:29	#10
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	The plans for 300 hybrids and in particular the 40 odd ICR cars have been floating about for a long time. They sound to me more like notions than actual plans. Given how long the saga of the 26x 2700 units has been going on, I wouldn't be holding my breath for things to get any better soon. Anyway, given Irish Rail's habit of parking up relatively fresh rolling stock that they've taken a dislike to because they've got shinier things to play with now, who's to say that spending the guts of a billion euro on new rolling stock would help matters much?

15-10-2018, 16:40	#11
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	If and when those units show up, are there plans to cascade some of the other units out of Dublin? Cobh has also been struggling with capacity this year, particularly because demand can be so uneven because of cruise liners. On the 100 or so days there is a cruise liner in, I've hear complaints of morning commuters on stations after Cobh being unable to board.