On Board Customer Service

comcor · 03-03-2017, 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Howard

A large portion of the people who would have difficulties with ticket machines would be on free-travel passes anyway.

Don't those with free travel still have to get a ticket, even if they don't pay for it?

Mind you, it shouldn't be too difficult to find a way around that issue e.g. putting tag on/tag off polls in every station in the country.

Eddie · 04-03-2017, 08:00

You probably only need and handful of people buying €70- €80 walk up fares to cover the marginal expense of covering 1 or 2 shifts at a station. Not everyone is motivated by cheap advance tickets. Ticket vending machines and on-line sales are limited to selling the most common point to point tickets.

It might be difficult to move staff from stations to on board trains - if they were recruited to look after a station, it might be considered a demotion to work, to what I think is being described as a guard. (I have no idea which job might be considered better). To avoid this, employment contracts would have to be sufficiently flexible at outset.

I used to live in the West Yorkshire region where there could be many relatively small unmanned stations. The guard could sell tickets to those boarding at unmanned stations (and I recollect that they would receive 5% of tickets sales made). I can't imagine the system has changed. Guards can provide customer assistance, an extra element of safety, and allow stations to remain open that wouldn't be viable if they had staff.

On the other hand, the ongoing Southern rail dispute in the UK would appear to be about removing guards altogether from 8-12 carriage trains carrying hundreds of passengers and having one sole individual in charge of the whole train. There, I guess stations are busy enough to be manned, and trains far too big for one person to be also checking tickets. I remember guards on many of the London underground lines in the past - I think they've all gone now, and these trains would also carry hundreds of passengers each at peak times.

So different areas need different solutions.

Jamie2k9 · 04-03-2017, 16:17

Quote:

You probably only need and handful of people buying €70- €80 walk up fares to cover the marginal expense of covering 1 or 2 shifts at a station. Not everyone is motivated by cheap advance tickets. Ticket vending machines and on-line sales are limited to selling the most common point to point tickets.

It may only take a few however just breaking eveni is not acceptable when you have the cost of running the train and a whole lot of others. A lot of UK stations that we view as quiet likely handle more than our lightly used station.

TMV are limited but that can be changed and online sales are a massive part of IE's revenue now and it will continue to grow.

Quote:

It might be difficult to move staff from stations to on board trains - if they were recruited to look after a station, it might be considered a demotion to work, to what I think is being described as a guard. (I have no idea which job might be considered better). To avoid this, employment contracts would have to be sufficiently flexible at outset.

I'm sure IE are aware and if they are not i'm sure some union members will point it out.

In the case of Kerry stations they will only travel on the Mallow-Tralee shuttle, so realistically I can't see major problems with it provided for example as said above staff are not required to incur additional expenses.

Quote:

Don't those with free travel still have to get a ticket, even if they don't pay for it?

Mind you, it shouldn't be too difficult to find a way around that issue e.g. putting tag on/tag off polls in every station in the country.

They do but won't have any action taken if unable to obtain one at a station with no ticket office.

Thomas J Stamp · 08-03-2017, 16:48

if the on board train staff are ticket vendors then i suppose many of the problems of unstaffed stations can be neutralised, but you are still left with those who need assistance boarding/alighting.

there are many people who do not have the ability to book tickets on line or to use a TVM, they may not have a debit/credit card, they may not have internet access, they may have a difficulty like dyslexia or mobility issues.

as an organisation we represent all those people as well, so it is a valid issue for us to not just accept this as inevitable progress.

There is also the fact that our rail network is a "public" transport. If Irish Rail does not have the resources to staff trains and stations properly the the issue must go back to the minister. The minister, as it stands, is the sole shareholder in Irish Rail and therefore no matter now much he protests otherwise, he calls the shots. Officially he is there to represent you and me as passangers and in a secondary function the citizens as a whole.

I haven't checked but as sole shareholder I would imagine the AGM's of Irish Rail must be lonely events which are literally held around the boardroom table in Heuston Station. If Irish Rail say that they are working their staff to the limit then the only solution is to hire more staff which means raising the subvention, and there is only one person who can do this.....

James Howard · 09-03-2017, 08:51

Lets assume that resources are limited and that in the present climate the minister is unlikely to be forthcoming with more money. In this case, is it not better that Irish Rail use what resources they have to properly staff trains rather than stations? If anything the reduction in fare evasion might end up allowing them to staff both. Leaving trains unstaffed has always seemed a very bizarre policy to me.

Surely the on-board staff can provide boarding assistance and in the rare case where they can't it would probably be more cost-effective for Irish Rail to fund the odd taxi from the nearest major station than pay somebody to sit in a booking office all day selling 20 or 30 tickets. In the real world, all people with mobility difficulties travelling to remote rural stations will have people collecting them anyway who will be able to help out.

TVMs take cash for the 0.1% of the travelling public who has neither access to a debit card, nor a free travel pass.

04-03-2017, 08:00	#2
Eddie Really Regular Poster Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 258	You probably only need and handful of people buying €70- €80 walk up fares to cover the marginal expense of covering 1 or 2 shifts at a station. Not everyone is motivated by cheap advance tickets. Ticket vending machines and on-line sales are limited to selling the most common point to point tickets. It might be difficult to move staff from stations to on board trains - if they were recruited to look after a station, it might be considered a demotion to work, to what I think is being described as a guard. (I have no idea which job might be considered better). To avoid this, employment contracts would have to be sufficiently flexible at outset. I used to live in the West Yorkshire region where there could be many relatively small unmanned stations. The guard could sell tickets to those boarding at unmanned stations (and I recollect that they would receive 5% of tickets sales made). I can't imagine the system has changed. Guards can provide customer assistance, an extra element of safety, and allow stations to remain open that wouldn't be viable if they had staff. On the other hand, the ongoing Southern rail dispute in the UK would appear to be about removing guards altogether from 8-12 carriage trains carrying hundreds of passengers and having one sole individual in charge of the whole train. There, I guess stations are busy enough to be manned, and trains far too big for one person to be also checking tickets. I remember guards on many of the London underground lines in the past - I think they've all gone now, and these trains would also carry hundreds of passengers each at peak times. So different areas need different solutions. Last edited by Eddie : 04-03-2017 at 08:14.

08-03-2017, 16:48	#4
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	if the on board train staff are ticket vendors then i suppose many of the problems of unstaffed stations can be neutralised, but you are still left with those who need assistance boarding/alighting. there are many people who do not have the ability to book tickets on line or to use a TVM, they may not have a debit/credit card, they may not have internet access, they may have a difficulty like dyslexia or mobility issues. as an organisation we represent all those people as well, so it is a valid issue for us to not just accept this as inevitable progress. There is also the fact that our rail network is a "public" transport. If Irish Rail does not have the resources to staff trains and stations properly the the issue must go back to the minister. The minister, as it stands, is the sole shareholder in Irish Rail and therefore no matter now much he protests otherwise, he calls the shots. Officially he is there to represent you and me as passangers and in a secondary function the citizens as a whole. I haven't checked but as sole shareholder I would imagine the AGM's of Irish Rail must be lonely events which are literally held around the boardroom table in Heuston Station. If Irish Rail say that they are working their staff to the limit then the only solution is to hire more staff which means raising the subvention, and there is only one person who can do this..... __________________ We are the passengers

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09-03-2017, 08:51	#5
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	Lets assume that resources are limited and that in the present climate the minister is unlikely to be forthcoming with more money. In this case, is it not better that Irish Rail use what resources they have to properly staff trains rather than stations? If anything the reduction in fare evasion might end up allowing them to staff both. Leaving trains unstaffed has always seemed a very bizarre policy to me. Surely the on-board staff can provide boarding assistance and in the rare case where they can't it would probably be more cost-effective for Irish Rail to fund the odd taxi from the nearest major station than pay somebody to sit in a booking office all day selling 20 or 30 tickets. In the real world, all people with mobility difficulties travelling to remote rural stations will have people collecting them anyway who will be able to help out. TVMs take cash for the 0.1% of the travelling public who has neither access to a debit card, nor a free travel pass.