People smoking on trains

[sandraoh]

It can be very irritating to have people smoking on trains but my husband informs me that the ticket checker on the 17:30 out of Heuston this evening has caught 2 people smoking in the toilet and is kicking them off in Kildare where they will be met by the gardai.

Fair play and bravo!

[Mark Gleeson]

Legally IE are liable to pay a fine if action is not taken, that helps motivate

The pa leaving Hesuton is usually quite clear about the no smoking policy

[Derek Wheeler]

As a "smoker" (leper, outcast, social misfit etc) I obey the law. Those who don't are just ignorant. Smokers would claim a lot more respect if they are continually observed obeying the law. If people continue to "look down on them", then thats similar ignorance to the smokers who flaunt the law. Unfortunetly, I have been on the receiving end of criticism, while smoking in accordance with the law on railway property. I won't type what my response was. (but it didn't contain expletives, just too long and complicated.)

The current law in relation to smoking is fair to both parties. Its up to smokers to obey it and IE/Luas to enforce it.

Have to say though, the MK4(bangers) press run to Cork and back was a laugh. All the smokers getting off the train at scheduled stops for a quickie. Lots of IE and politico heads amongst them. (obeying the law of course) We don't really see that on everyday services.

[Mark Gleeson]

When we broke down on Saturday, we where allowed off to have a smoke if we wished to

Platform quickly had 100+ on it

[Derek Wheeler]

A fair and reasonable attitude, that doesn't affect non-smoking passengers. Considering the circumstances of course.

[Oisin88]

Am I the only one that smells smoke all over the carriage when people go to the "vestibule" at the end of the carriage and smoke out the window?

For the engineers: is this where the aircon air inlet is?

It's like there's some sort of a delay because sometimes when you get down to the door there is nobody there. Also, I'm not pushed on going looking for the ticket checker because I'd have to pack up laptop and drag it with me.

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Oisin88

Am I the only one that smells smoke all over the carriage when people go to the "vestibule" at the end of the carriage and smoke out the window?

For the engineers: is this where the aircon air inlet is?

It's like there's some sort of a delay because sometimes when you get down to the door there is nobody there. Also, I'm not pushed on going looking for the ticket checker because I'd have to pack up laptop and drag it with me.

Obviously the practise of "smoking out the window" is wrong and against the law, no matter what "fresh air" excuse is offered.

Taking the matter further...

If a smoker gets onto a train, just after the "last drag", (and perhaps 10 + cigs taken before that) the odour will be carried with them and will of course be noticeable to non-smoking passengers. This can create a "perception" (especially if you've a few smokers in your carraige) of a smokey atmosphere. Its more a case of "odour" (which wont kill you) rather than actual smoke.

Addressing, your point directly, Oisin, regarding the air con etc., Im no engineer, but from experience, prior to the "clampdown", I never actually sat in the smoking carraige of a train, because the ventilation etc was so bad. Some smokers don't actually like a smokey environment. Im one of them. I would walk to the "vestibule" of the smoking carraige and smoke out the door window. Considering that the train is travelling at speed and a breeze blows by the window, the pitiful emissions from a cigarette are well and truly destroyed by the force of this breeze. Obviously this is based on actually smoking out the window. If you just stand beside the window, then the vestibule will have resultant cigarette fumes, no doubt whatsoever. So I reckon that cigarette fumes in the air con are getting there from smokers standing "beside" the door window as opposed to smoking out the window. There is no way that "smoke" blown out through a window would be strong enough to re-enter the aircon system from outside.

Just my thoughts as a considerate smoker and fellow committee members can vouch for that.

[Oisin88]

prior to the "clampdown", I never actually sat in the smoking carraige of a train, because the ventilation etc was so bad.

That used to wreck my head! Smokers smoked up the smoking carriage then sat in the less dirty smokeless carriages. Then popped down to the "vestibule" for a smoke which everyone in the carriage could smell. Then when they sat back down, the smell was almost gone, or at least below the level that a smoker can smell (your nasal receptors are downregulated by smoking)

[MrX]

I think it does come down to the fact that smokers actually don't smell the smoke the way the rest of us do. It's supprisingly strong. You can litterally smell someone who has been smoking recently from a full carriage length away or across a room.

I really think smoking out the window or in the toilet is not on though. The end doors on the MK3s rarely work properly or reliably so you tend to get huge amounts of smoke billowing into the carriage itself as the air's flowing through the coach due to the open end doors.

Smoking on the Enterprise or CAF Intercity trains is really not possible at all.

It's only a 3hour ish trip, so, i mean if you're that desperate bring some nicorette chewing gum...

[James Shields]

I'm always amused to see the smokers pop out for a quick drag when the Enterprise stops at Drogheda.

[Derek Wheeler]

[quote=MrX]I think it does come down to the fact that smokers actually don't smell the smoke the way the rest of us do. It's supprisingly strong. You can litterally smell someone who has been smoking recently from a full carriage length away or across a room.[quote]

I thought this thread was about "smoking on trains" and not "the smell of a smoker". As a smoking law abiding person, Im aware of the odour that cigarettes leave on the breath (I carry mouth spray) and the clothes,(if one smokes indoors) Im sorry that non-smokers dislike the odour(which won't kill you, and Ive yet to see any stats for damage done by secondhand cigarette odour) If smokers took more interest in obeying the law(this actually does negate the odour on clothes issue) and taking an interest in the "breath issue", then we may reach a more harmonious point.

As a smoker, I notice odours from poor personal hygiene. I obey the laws of smoking, spend lots on mouth sprays, have improved clothing odours as a result of the work place ban, but nobody takes a pop at dirty and smelly people, who decide not to wash or change underwear. Why? Because a sweaty, 7 days in the underpants person, can't kill you as a result of the smell. In all fairness, stand at crushload on a DART or Luas, next to this type of person and its perhaps more unpleasant than the smell of cigarette smoke from someones breath or clothing.

Smoking on trains is wrong, inconsiderate and against the law. If the next step in the evolution of the anti-smoking brigade is to outlaw odours, then I suggest we extend it to the hygienically challenged aswell. There's more of them on public transport than "smoking smokers".

Issued sidelined. Thank you.

[sandraoh]

What should be done if someone is smoking on a train though? Not all trains have visible staff.

[Oisin88]

Smoking on trains is wrong, inconsiderate and against the law. If the next step in the evolution of the anti-smoking brigade is to outlaw odours, then I suggest we extend it to the hygienically challenged aswell. There's more of them on public transport than "smoking smokers".

Outlawing odours might be a bit far, at this stage. Garlic salami might also have to be included.

However, on the Mk2Ds that used to do the Galway-Dublin run (even last friday) people definitely smoke in the vestibules. Coupled with the not so great air handling in these yokes, you can definitely smell smoking and not smokers. It fades a few minutes after the illicit smoke. My lungs know it. I've been passive smoking on public transport since 1979!

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by sandraoh

What should be done if someone is smoking on a train though? Not all trains have visible staff.

Smoke detectors, similar to those used on an airplane. You light up, alram sounds, staff react. Modern trains may have this. Older trains could easily be fitted with basic smoke detectors that emit a loud alarm.

Just imagine Johnny do wrong lighting up in between carraiges on an oul banger to Galway or wherever and within 60 seconds a high pitched sound goes off with a flashing light. He'll quickly put out the ciggie and think twice about doing it again. All very simple and available from many distributors for less than a tenner a piece. P11 discussed it 2 years ago when smoking carraiges were discontinued. Why didn't IE do it on older trains? Because they don't care. No more than they care about many other issues that inconvenience customers. Or it could be that they wanted to avoid a major industrial relations issue with maintenence staff who would be expected to check and change the batteries in the smoke alarms.

The more I think about it, its probably the latter. I'll try and dig up the link to the smoke detector Im talking about. Its designed specifically for cigarette smoke.

Finally, a bit of TLC , for the smoker, who's doing his best here, to promote the law, so non-smokers on trains can get what they deserve. A smoke free environment in accordance with the law.

Some smokers accept their addiction is unpleasant, unhealthy and damaging, to themselves and others who have to inhale it. They obey the law and strive to quit. The only other person in my life that I want to "save" from my habit is my wonderful wife, Louise (never smoked). Everyday, I battle with my guilt. So there's an insight into the world of one smoker.

[sandraoh]

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

The only other person in my life that I want to "save" from my habit is my wonderful wife, Louise (never smoked). Everyday, I battle with my guilt. So there's an insight into the world of one smoker.

Awwwww

[Thomas J Stamp]

Awwwww

[Oisin88]

Apologies for bringing this back to life, and in the wrong section and all but *smoking on the luas*

The other day "alrigh bud" got on the luas and sat down beside me.

"Give us a ligh"
"Sorry dont have one"
"Ah gwan"
"Look I haven't got one"

then he turned to one of the new Irish on the other side. I didn't understand the words used but it had the same outcome as my conversation.

Anyway, Bud lit his cigarette from a lighter that he found somewhere in some tracksuit pocket. I know I was bigger than him and all that but I turned around to see if there was any popular support on the tram to do anything and nobody was interested. We were right at the front of the tram so unless the cabs are smoke insulated the driver was having a passive too.

So should I have:
(1) taken him by the scruff of the collar and horsed him out the door?
or
(2) *putting on posh Homer Simpson with reading glasses voice* "excuse me sir, I am frightfully sorry, would you mind not smoking on the tram."
(3) Just grumble under my breath and ignore him and post on Platform 11 at a later date?

Answers on a postcard etc...

[Mark Gleeson]

Many a time I'd love to take a yobbo by the scruff of the neck and sort them out but well I'm not the biggest guy and you just can't do that anymore

I've seen some fairly shocking things, guy smoking heroin, there was the sex on the DART couple, I've seen the one man show then usual ******* drinking, smoking and vandalism. I've got the odd person pulled off but its a serious risk to take a visible action

I've seen a notable increase in on train security, the ticket checks are way more frequent. Seen a fair few been thrown off.

I'm not being racists here but I have noted a significant disobedience among many of our new EU neighbors, they may have adapted to the local social norms a bit too welll

[Derek Wheeler]

I'm not being racists here but I have noted a significant disobedience among many of our new EU neighbors, they may have adapted to the local social norms a bit too welll

Ive noticed that aswell.

So should I have:
(1) taken him by the scruff of the collar and horsed him out the door?
or
(2) *putting on posh Homer Simpson with reading glasses voice* "excuse me sir, I am frightfully sorry, would you mind not smoking on the train.
(3) Just grumble under my breath and ignore him and post on Platform 11 at a later date?

Answers on a postcard etc...

Actually, you shouldn't have to do anything. Should be a smoke detector that triggers alarm in drivers cab. Warning announcement follows. Best policy for all this crap is the formation of a transport police unit. Its long overdue. Areseholes know that a moving piece of public transport in a lawless enclosed environment in which to cause havoc. Mark my words, the day a customer or staff member is killed on public transport, due to a violent act, every two bit politician and media hack will be screaming the words "transport police". I hope it doesn't happen, but you heard it here first.