Western rail corridor (WRC) - Capital Plan

[Goods]

Longford, Gorey Athlone commuters.......

Whats the alternative...... to have everybody living in Dublin? There is a housing shortage in Dublin meaning those working and studying in the city have little option but to commute. Youth studying in Dublin appreciate the train service on an early Monday morning from these towns. The Limerick - Galway passenger figures have surpassed CIE expectations and indeed the same argument was trotted out when Knock airport was being developed that it was not viable yet it is providing a valuable service to the West today. Rail infrastructure around the country is invaluable in a country that is over dependent on road transport and against the UN sustainable development 2030 goals.

[ACustomer]

A few points:
Ennis-Athenry has new infrasctructure and the financial impact of closure would be relatively minor. North of Athenry is a totally different ball game, even ignoring low traffic levels. The very considerable capital costs are relevant to any decision, whereas the capital costs of Ennis-Athenry are sunk costs and therefore irrelevant. If I had to put in new investment, a few bob on a crossing loop at Sixmilebridge might not go astray.

Goods, you say

Longford, Gorey Athlone commuters.......Whats the alternative...... to have everybody living in Dublin?

Very long-distance commuting is in large measure a response to hopeless transport and planning decisions within 20 to 30 kms of Dublin. DART underground and other investments complementary to it would enhance the quality and quantity of commuting from a relatively small distance.

I propose a new variant of Boyle's law (remember, For a fixed amount of gas, pressure and volume are inversely proportional). This reads, for any railway project, the political pressure is inversely proportional to the likely volume of traffic.

[Mark Gleeson]

Lets get one thing very straight about numbers

Target was 250k Ennis Athenry, 125-140k is the best done so far, this is a fact. Adding in Galway Athenry and Ennis Limerick is a classic smokescreen to inflate the numbers

What is shocking is despite the 21st century infrastructure and automation its loss is still significant. Closing it doesn't really save much but it does save on the operating costs and requires minimal redundancies. Nenagh on the other hand what you are mainly saving is the future costs of major engineering works.

There is a huge question of efficiency, we cannot fund a frequent all day commuter service to Longford, Athlone, Gorey, its mostly carrying air around apart from some demand in morning and evening, folks then complain they have no late night service etc. If you choose to live 80 miles away then you will only get a basic service. Thats not sustainable development we are actually encouraging people to build cheap one off houses in Longford and to spend 2 hours each way on a train, its not a way to live.

Prior to the introduction of Longford Dublin it was Mullingar Dublin, 50 miles a reasonable cut off distance, there was a plan for a late evening post 9pm train, once the service got pushed out to Longford the evening train plan was scrapped as the numbers could no longer stack up.

[Goods]

[i]"What we have instead is a motorway plan which is not rooted in sound traffic management or sound financial management. That has been proven", and a plan estimated at €5.6 billion could now cost up to €20 billion.
Mr Sargent said that a trick employed by contractors had become systematic, where they put in a bid "low enough to get political support and once accepted the claims are maximised to ensure that the overrun is not 20 per cent over, which is the average internationally, but 86 per cent of the cost"

Its interesting how some stress the capital cost of rail development particularly in cases where the infrastructure such as the permanent way is already in place like the WRC. Such infrastructure could not be purchased today yet its in the states hands and can be developed at a fraction of the price of roads. In terms of rail we must have the foresight to project forward. But for the fact that the Harcourt line permanent way was maintained the likelihood of the Luas line to Ranelagh and beyond might never have happened. Maintain the option and plan for a future that certainly will not be based on petrol/diesel cars or trucks.

[Goods]

https://www.google.ge/search?q=weste...K4VMLPjP6uY1M:

WRC has to be one of the best connected lines in the country intersecting with main line routes at Limerick, Athenry, Claremorris and Collooney. Athenry has just been named as the location for Apple info centre so having rail links will be an added attraction.

[Mark Gleeson]

Data centres look big, employ tiny numbers of people once built, could get by with less than 10 per shift

We can thank CIE for it since they laid a fibre optic cable along the WRC 15 years ago

Really grappling for straws here

[Inniskeen]

What Mark says about says Data Centres omits to include suppliers, outsourced support staff, building maintenance and others I can't immediately think of. The numbers employed in total may not be huge but there are other contributions including construction employment, support for renewable energy and conmercial rates. More importantly other employment and activity may follow in the area with obvious societal and region benefits.

As for the WRC, the case for completion may not be overwhelming but despite motorways Galway is a heavily congested city and both it and it's hinterland would benefit from improved regional rail links. The other key advantage of re-instating the Athenry to Galway line is that it would allow diversion of freight traffic destined for Waterford away from the Kildare bottleneck.

[Thomas Morelli]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Lets get one thing very straight about numbers

Target was 250k Ennis Athenry, 125-140k is the best done so far, this is a fact.

In what year were 125-140k journeys made?

[Jamie2k9]

As for the WRC, the case for completion may not be overwhelming but despite motorways Galway is a heavily congested city and both it and it's hinterland would benefit from improved regional rail links. The other key advantage of re-instating the Athenry to Galway line is that it would allow diversion of freight traffic destined for Waterford away from the Kildare bottleneck.

This is such a myth.

Yes divert via West of Ireland, and require 2 loco changes (?) and take just as long as current paths do. Not to mention the cost of manning Limerick J-Waterford to service the route combined with little spare capacity between Ennis-Limerick.

The current schedules were designed to cut costs and don't have much impact. It would be cheaper to return to the evening runs at a 23.30-00.00 arrival and avoid any congestion at Kildare.

[Inniskeen]

There is some capacity between Ennis and Limerick and more could be added relatively easily, if required.

Why would there be a requirement for two locomotive changes on freight trains routed via the WRC. I can see that there might be one change but two ????

[Jamie2k9]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

There is some capacity between Ennis and Limerick and more could be added relatively easily, if required.

Why would there be a requirement for two locomotive changes on freight trains routed via the WRC. I can see that there might be one change but two ????

Wasn't sure of how the connection works at Athenry.

Whatever way people try to dress up the business case, spending millions to divert 6 return workings per week doesn't and will never stack up.

The project needs to be shelved, it would only for our unstable Goverment it's still been "talked" about. I can't see that changing if there is another election either.

[Goods]

The reason WRC is important is that this is not about today and the six trains you mention, this is about the future.
Going on that logic the Harcourt line in Dublin should have been built on and there would never have been a Luas because putting that type of infrastructure in place today would be impossible.
Brexit means Rosslare is more important and links to it by rail are a solution for the future. Ireland is obliged under UN sustainable goals 2030 to move away from car/truck petrol-diesel as all our fuel is imported. Electric trains will be the way to go. Dublin Cork line is too busy.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Goods

the same argument was trotted out when Knock airport was being developed that it was not viable yet it is providing a valuable service to the West today.

Knock killed both Galway and Sligo airports.

[Goods]

http://npf.ie/wp-content/uploads/201...compressed.pdf

WRC is not about now its about a future Ireland. The reason we are so poor at planning in Ire is that we plan only within the 4yr term of a Govt whereas in more successful economies there is a long term planning process. Dublin is an example of the short term plan mess up. Hydrocarbon fuels are disappearing diesel will be a no go in 5yrs which is why electric rail will be an answer.

[Inniskeen]

I would imagine that you would save as much in addressing waste and inefficiecies on DART as in closing the WRC. You would have to imagine that Irish Rail have done a sweetheart deal on the price of electricity given the amount of empty space being dragged around - eight car trains are rarely required outside the morning and evening peak periods on monday to friday yet are to be found at other times rattling around with barely a hand full of passengers for most of the trip. Revenue protection on DART is none too hot either with some of the busiest stations in the country unmanned most of the time.

Unmanned stations and large lightly loaded trains increase the incidence of antisocial behaviour and vandalism which deters other passengers as well as generating expenditure on repairs.

Another inefficiency that has defied resolution for years is crew changing at Fairview which slows journeys and disrupts other services. What is the cost this represents in lost capacity ?

[Goods]

http://npf.ie/wp-content/uploads/201...compressed.pdf

Connectivity and future population growth are items that raise the importance of the invaluable infrastructure that is the Western Rail Corridor. A country with ready made infrastructure like WRC route has an advantage that should be exploited for the public good. Rail developments in the future will probably see single track systems that are lighter and less expensive to maintain which is why the WRC permanent way is so essential to open up