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Unread 09-04-2012, 13:21   #1
dowlingm
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Default When will the 22000s go Up North?

Given the usual provision of specials for Six Nations games, we know north of the border rugby people aren't shy of using rail to travel south, but there doesn't appear to be any in-service equipment which can do a continuous trip from Belfast to Limerick (I don't think the DDs were ever cleared into Limerick from the Junction?). In that light an opportunity may have been missed to run a Belfast-Limerick Special for the recent Ulster-Munster game.

Now the rollout of the "block 2" 22000 sets is under way and more 22000s have been sent Connolly-side. Is there any word on when clearance trials on the Dundalk-Belfast track might commence so that 22000s can be deployed on Enterprise replacement trains instead of commuter sets and hopefully snag a bit of Special business too? It seems incredible that has not yet been done given that NIR fitted stock was the first-delivered of the class yet there can be heritage stock and steam engines puffing up and down the Northern Line and into the Howth branch with a 201 sent in to haul it back out.
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Unread 09-04-2012, 13:46   #2
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Given the usual provision of specials for Six Nations games, we know north of the border rugby people aren't shy of using rail to travel south, but there doesn't appear to be any in-service equipment which can do a continuous trip from Belfast to Limerick (I don't think the DDs were ever cleared into Limerick from the Junction?). In that light an opportunity may have been missed to run a Belfast-Limerick Special for the recent Ulster-Munster game.

Now the rollout of the "block 2" 22000 sets is under way and more 22000s have been sent Connolly-side. Is there any word on when clearance trials on the Dundalk-Belfast track might commence so that 22000s can be deployed on Enterprise replacement trains instead of commuter sets and hopefully snag a bit of Special business too? It seems incredible that has not yet been done given that NIR fitted stock was the first-delivered of the class yet there can be heritage stock and steam engines puffing up and down the Northern Line and into the Howth branch with a 201 sent in to haul it back out.
Given Irish Rail's entrenched dis-interest in cross-border services, I wouldn't hold my breadth. Still unless they intend mothballing some of the latest batch of 22000s I would expect them to be cleared in the near future as they are already working a few local services to Drogheda and Dundalk.

Another factor which might force their hand is the likeliehood that the NI authorities will ultimately object to the routine substitution of trains not compliant with safety systems in Northern Ireland.
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Unread 09-04-2012, 15:16   #3
Mark Gleeson
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Its very very rare for any need for extra services originating from Dublin, any charter or special originating in Northern Ireland is entirely Translink's problem, they used to run specials in the past.

I can recall in recent times a Cork Belfast charter Irish Rail ran, it originated on the Irish Rail side so it was there problem.

No C3K/4CK/DD set is cleared beyond Inchicore, even if a set was a whole pile of extra staff is required as no one in NIR is trained on the route. Its very much simpler to clear 22K sets to Belfast, much shorter distance to start with and no need for extra staff.

Any timetable improvement requiring extra trains requires 50-50 financial support so unless Translink wish to put up some cash extra trains are not happening.
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Unread 09-04-2012, 20:08   #4
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Its very very rare for any need for extra services originating from Dublin, any charter or special originating in Northern Ireland is entirely Translink's problem, they used to run specials in the past.

I can recall in recent times a Cork Belfast charter Irish Rail ran, it originated on the Irish Rail side so it was there problem.

No C3K/4CK/DD set is cleared beyond Inchicore, even if a set was a whole pile of extra staff is required as no one in NIR is trained on the route. Its very much simpler to clear 22K sets to Belfast, much shorter distance to start with and no need for extra staff.

Any timetable improvement requiring extra trains requires 50-50 financial support so unless Translink wish to put up some cash extra trains are not happening.
Like so many aspects of railway operations in the past, NIR specials to points beyond Dublin were no particular problem although there was a need for Irish Rail staff to conduct trains beyond Dublin.

As regards improved services on the Belfast line, Irish Rail can bury its corporate head in the sand and watch the business continue to decline in the wake of the Malahide debacle, lowest common denominator timetabling, the M1 and Matthews.
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Unread 09-04-2012, 23:20   #5
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Mark G - not really looking for extra stuff on a scheduled basis so much as taking opportunities as they arise. The reality is that the 29s should not be beetling toward Belfast at 75mph when the 22s are 90mph capable and TPWS equipped - any Special revenue would just be a cherry on top since crews could swap during the reverse at Connolly should the Northern line crew not be familiar with the route to Limerick.
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Unread 10-04-2012, 00:58   #6
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22s are 90mph capable
They are capable of 100mph
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Unread 10-04-2012, 01:09   #7
dowlingm
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The track isn't
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Unread 10-04-2012, 05:55   #8
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The track isn't
The Belfast line is not cleared for 100 mph, but much of it is of suitable quality and alignment to support 100mph running.

Incidentally renewal of the line between Liburn and Portadown (when it eventually happens) is planned to be suitable for 125 mph running.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 13:56   #9
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they'll have to do something, NIR have requested 8 specials to run on the 28th for the heiniken cup semi.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 14:12   #10
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Can't see any specials. Irish Rail omly yesterday put up a notice for bus transfers on the evening of 28 and morning of 29.....If they have being requested by NIR why contuine with track works?
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Unread 12-04-2012, 14:25   #11
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Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Its very very rare for any need for extra services originating from Dublin, any charter or special originating in Northern Ireland is entirely Translink's problem, they used to run specials in the past.

I can recall in recent times a Cork Belfast charter Irish Rail ran, it originated on the Irish Rail side so it was there problem.

No C3K/4CK/DD set is cleared beyond Inchicore, even if a set was a whole pile of extra staff is required as no one in NIR is trained on the route. Its very much simpler to clear 22K sets to Belfast, much shorter distance to start with and no need for extra staff.

Any timetable improvement requiring extra trains requires 50-50 financial support so unless Translink wish to put up some cash extra trains are not happening.
many times the 80 class ran on the irish rail network, it travelled from Newry to Ennis for a GAA game back in 1993
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Unread 12-04-2012, 14:29   #12
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Can't see any specials. Irish Rail omly yesterday put up a notice for bus transfers on the evening of 28 and morning of 29.....If they have being requested by NIR why contuine with track works?
no sign of any notices. they'll have to abandon that idea for that weekend.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 14:46   #13
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Portlaoise/Thurles Works
Due to works between Portlaoise and Thurles between 18.30 Saturday and 11.30 on Sunday on the weekends of 21st-22nd, 28th-29th April and 12th-13th May, there will be bus transfers betweene Portlaoise and Thurles on the following services:
And I think you will find that Irish Rail do not have to abandon these works just because NIR want to run special trains of which will no dought affect scheduled services and I can't see this being justified.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 15:05   #14
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And I think you will find that Irish Rail do not have to abandon these works just because NIR want to run special trains of which will no dought affect scheduled services and I can't see this being justified.
THE SEMI IS IN THE AVIVA

so it will be the BFS-DUB line

Last edited by joey : 12-04-2012 at 15:18.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 15:26   #15
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Sorry didn't realise it was in Dublin, Some reason I thaught it was Limerick - did Ulster play there recenty??

I see no reason why the specials won't go ahead. NIR operated 3 or 4 for one of the Ireland matches at the aviva last month or in Feb.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 15:28   #16
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And I think you will find that Irish Rail do not have to abandon these works just because NIR want to run special trains of which will no dought affect scheduled services and I can't see this being justified.
You must have a great view from your high horse there. Why on earth would Portlaoise-Thurles track work prevent specials from Belfast to Dublin? As for the Rabo game in Thomond Park on the 5th, people who want to see that match by rail will have to stay in Limerick irrespective since the match is a 1930 k/o.

The Eucharistic Congress thread shows IE can move mountains - specials from Cobh to Sandymount! - if you ask them the right way (or threaten them with a belt of a crozier)

The main problem with NIR specials is that the C3Ks end up being shuttled hither and yon to be parked. At least if the 22Ks were available to be positioned to Belfast to take some of the trade those 22s could then be sent down the Bray line or up the Sligo line to M3 Parkway or somewhere else. The C3Ks can only be parked in so many places especially if the 8200s are still clogging up sidings in Fairview.
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Unread 12-04-2012, 18:44   #17
Colm Moore
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The Eucharistic Congress thread shows IE can move mountains - specials from Cobh to Sandymount! - if you ask them the right way (or threaten them with a belt of a crozier)
I suspect the deal there is 'fill the train and we will give you a good rate'.

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At least if the 22Ks were available to be positioned to Belfast
Surely Bangor?
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