This Board Should be a Lot Busier and P11 TV

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Honest, I am not trolling when I say this. Having had a really good look around this board in recent times, I am surprised by how few messages are posted here and how threads seems to die so quickly. The activity level is a fraction of what it should be. P11 is very well known now - but this board isn't hoping like it should be.

There is a lot of interesting stuff, but to be honest there is not enough energy for the average Joe here in tems of keeping them interested. The engineering and techie stuff is grand for enlightening people on why so much stuff on the railway is *******ed, but it is often interjected with "well to be fair to IE...". I think this is a bit off putting as it comes across as an excuse a lot of the time.

There is nothing wrong with people coming on here and being outraged by what goes on with IE/CIE/RPA etc and letting them vent is fine. But most of the problems with IE from what I see are cultural with a "sure it'll do" ethos within that company. Apart from one or two posters and commitee members, this is hardly ever expressed here. This board should be nothing but that when you think about it.

These are the best threads on the board and unfortunately there is not enough of them posted here. Frankly there should be loads as then IE might get the message. I think people need to vent and even if they get a bit hot and heavy well that's OK as you might be dealing with somebody who just went through misery on an IE train and the last thing this person wants to hear is "well to be fair the vacume brake on the Mk4's is the issue..." - sometimes a person just needs to have their feelings about bad rail transport in Ireland validated. There is nothing wrong with this, and nothing unprofessional about the board having this kind of content as it's main content, or at least a greater level of this. If you look at boards like archiseek there is nice balance between ranting and techinical discussion and that board is hopping. A lot of the people on that board and others (obviously not IRN) should be posting here too and they just aren't as there is a common cross-over between rail transport-planning-politics and so on.

I think on the whole the board is very good and interesting, but its needs to be more open to the ordinary Joe Sixpack. I would suggest that people be allowed to rant sometimes. Almost nobody thinks that IE does a good job and this view is held by the vast majority of people who use their "services" if you can call them that. Starting with this reality as a given - the moderators should try to foster and encourage rail user outrage as it is real and it is valid. This is the only way IE and the Government will every get the message.

One suggestion I was thinking about is has P11 ever considered setting up a text messaging service with a number people can text incidents and complaints to as well as sending updates and so on to commuters? For many people this would be easier and more practical than emailing P11 or posting messages to the board as they are on the go when a lot of this garbage happens (they can always check later on the board when they get home) These could be uploaded to the board every evening rather than. Also, with the growth and popularity of i-pods as well there is a chance for something like P11 TV which could podcast issues and press releases to commuters. There are even clubs in Ireland now who do this and it would be perferct for P11 and what the group is about.

Again I am not trolling, the board is very good, but is vastly less popular than it should be. It should be hopping really. It's a warzone out there.

[Derek Wheeler]

Rants are perfectly acceptable, so long as its not the same rant over and over and no defamatory remarks are made. We try to be as fair as possible to posters, but have no hesitation in calling a halt to matters if they upset the board, damage P11s integrity or are downright irrelevent to what P11 is about.The current committee reserves the right to decide on the above.

The board is often hopping with activity, but it tends to be during periods of major disruption. On a day to day basis, we rely on rail users knowing who we are, having access to the internet and actually experiencing a problem. Other modes of electronic communication and promoting them costs money, but we explore them all.

The prime motivator at the moment is the age old problem of awareness. This is being addressed in a very high profile manner over the comming weeks. But again, these things require funding and voluntary assistance, if we are to make them a deserved reality.

You mention one particular issue in your post, in relation to a form of excuse making on behalf of IE. We encourage our technical people to provide reasons for failures etc. They are "reasons" not "excuses". As membership continues to grow, it is fair to say that the "tone" and "content" of the board will change. That is why the forum was redesigned. We continue to attract the "Joe Sixpack" (as you put it) and many of them have ranted off in various threads. We anticipate this will develop even further as the committee strive to represent them through our current efforts and forthcoming projects.

P11 is no longer a purely infrastructural lobby. Its role now is to represent the needs of existing rail customers and engage in the debate or public consultation processes of new rail projects. Our aims and objectives will soon promote a broader, but clearly defined approach.

As IE have a "sure it'll do" ethos, I'll choose the "rome wasn't built in a day" line, on the basis of IE having loads of money, while the passion that emanates from P11, depends on a vastly smaller pot of funding. But P11 will actually get there.

[Navan Junction]

Why not have a general commuting section as well?

So all the misc commuters that don't easily (or in anyway) fit can engage in commuting non-rail passenger discussion too?

[Oisin88]

Originally Posted by Nigel Fitzgricer

One suggestion I was thinking about is has P11 ever considered setting up a text messaging service with a number people can text incidents and complaints to as well as sending updates and so on to commuters?

I like this idea, since my work laptop doesn't allow me to log on.
Maybe a WAP service too?

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Navan Junction

Why not have a general commuting section as well?

So all the misc commuters that don't easily (or in anyway) fit can engage in commuting non-rail passenger discussion too?

Boards.ie Commuting and transport board. Otherwise, I have no idea what you are taliking about.

[Mark Gleeson]

The posts to thread ratio has actually increased recently, its always been about 10 to 1. We have started to post a lot more passenger focused information on delays and alterations this has gone down well and guess who is the number 2 visitor to this site?

The text service idea was proposed a long time ago the problem is really getting the number to text into the public domain to a sufficently large number of people. Irish Rail are trialling a system on a certain rail line in Dublin to date results have been hit and miss, a lot more miss.

In reality we have discussed just about every idea sometime but ruled it out on the grounds of cost or practicality, a lot of it requires someone in a office behind a PC to field calls etc, we have neither that person or that office yet

We are taking some quite serious steps to improve awareness in coming weeks but we all have day jobs and we can't be everywhere at once we have some fun stuff coming in the future seriously fun

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Oisin88

I like this idea, since my work laptop doesn't allow me to log on.
Maybe a WAP service too?

As I said above, we are aware of peoples online limitations and we do explore other methods. Time, money, resources etc. But much will happen, even if its funded from the pockets of committee members. Small changes, that lead to bigger changes, will be announced shortly.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Fair enough so. The "rome wasn't built in a day" as Derek puts it mindset I find particuarly nauseating and long past its sell-by date as lots of stuff which is screwed up with IE could be built in an hour - again the cultural thingy.

I have to agree with NJ about the general commuting board idea. This could act a lure to bring bus commuters in as well as many of the same issues they face (ticketing, industrial action, poor service) are similar to the rail ones as it's all rooted in CIE decades old paddywackery and DoT political muppertry. Perhaps call it "The Interchange" or something like that. It would not be a compromise of what P11 rail agenda - but good for the board. Ireland's public transport is so bad that we are all in this mess together both rail and bus users.

There was one other thread about having Metro North connecting with Donebate. I really found it intersting as I think the idea is feckin great - serious integration for a pitance really. I can empatise with the points some people made with suburban sprawl, but that thread died as soon as it began and it was a shame. That's the kind of thing I am talking about. To me that's the kind of thread which can be all things to all posters.

When I said sometimes the techie stuff comes across as an excuse for IE incompetent, I was implying that's how the average Joe Sixpack might take it. I feel it is important for commuters to foster their absolute frustration with railways in Ireland and so on as it's the only way things will change. Platform11 owes IE nothing. You are not paying rent to them, you are not desparate to have a peek inside Limerick engine shed. As a consumer group P11 exsists for no other reason than because IE is crap (and the RPA is crap at times too) - so let them have it and give it up in spades to them - they might get the message. That's their problem, not P11's. When IE management are not able to sleep at night because of P11 then you are on the right path. I feel that in the past some rail groups have been bought off with a peek inside and engine shed, a loan of the 121s, some track and signalling diagrams. This has allowed IE to buy their way out of the criticism they deserve.

Again the board is very good, but it could be mega, and indeed should be. A broader scope and a more relaxed, less techie atmosphere I feel would go a long way towards this. That's just my Kent Brockman two cents for what its worth.

PS: Apart from the Donebate Metro and Phoenix Park Tunnel, yes its a good idea not being interested in infrastructure lobbying as Transport21 answers most questions. Sticking with the day to day incompetence of the CIE rail operator is the most effective strategy by far.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

and more photos in the threads as well. One of the most attractive aspects of archiseek is lots of the threads have pictures in them to illustrate the discussion topic. This can lead to very interesting and informative threads. I was thinking in terms of posting photos of the current developments at Spencer Dock and Abbotstown. There was one post by somebody about the new yellow stripe on the Luas - a photo to go into the thread would of been great as this opens up other aveunes around the issue such as mad Irish drivers and the limitations of Luas etc. Give us lot not living in Dublin a view of what's going on elsewhere and vice versa.

I am sorry if this comes across as me complaining and finding fault, but it's just seeing the board with new eyes again and what I feel would make it better. Everybody has digital camera and camera phones these days so it's no bother really to take photos and post them to threads. Thomas Bibby used to do this a fair bit but he is sadly not around much these days.

[colmoc]

A company that I worked for contacted IE/CIE/DOT (one of the three I'm not privvy to that info) a few years ago with a view to setting up an interactive travel wap/sms/mms site with train timetables, delays, bus times, etc etc.

They were told it was a no go and then CIE introduced the DartText and BusText system which are utter crap. Completely user unfriendly.

The same company approached the idea again earlier this year but arent bothered working with CIE now since their initial interactions were so frustrating

[CSL]

Easy enough to have a few WML pages detailing current delays
say dublin-cork or Dart

-- fire an XSL transform at IE's web page to turn it into WML , then add P11 updates as needed.


this pushes mobile costs back to the end-user

[Thomas J Stamp]

1. General Commuting: We're a rail lobby group. Thats about as usefull a suggestion as getting the Irish Cancer Society to lobby on behalf of people with Broken legs.

2. Rexting in messages: Costs a bomb. We need a call centre to do it, more to the point we need to advertisie it. One decent ad in a daily paper would decimate our reserves and leave nothing aside for anything else.

3. Instead of spewing forth great suggestions, take one from me: pay a tenner, look at the members section, get some answers.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

IIRC I think I paid 3 years membership in advance and it might be still valid. If not PM me and I will do that.

[Thomas J Stamp]

It shall be done.

[James Shields]

One suggestion I was thinking about is has P11 ever considered setting up a text messaging service with a number people can text incidents and complaints to as well as sending updates and so on to commuters? For many people this would be easier and more practical than emailing P11 or posting messages to the board as they are on the go when a lot of this garbage happens

I like the idea of this, or at least the principle of it.

Now, I know 5???? numbers cost a fortune (though if there was enough demand for it, a number that charged 50c per text, with the proceeds going to P11 coffers would be a nice idea), so I think we can rule that out for the moment.

However most phones these days support both text-to-email and WAP. If we could encourage people to store a P11 email address in their phone and send a message to it whenever they got stuck on a train, and have it automatically appear on a web page.

Alternatively, how about a WAP site that tracked real time incidents. How often have you been stuck on a train with no information? Wouldn't it be great if you could check on your phone and see if there are lots of other reports on the same line, or if the problem is isolated to your train, or if other travellers have received better information than you. I think people would be more willing to post incidents if they could do it as it was happening rather than after the event, and it would really put IE's reporting to shame.

It would also allow more helpful collection of data through a pre-canned form (which would also help minimise the amount of typing on a phone keypad). You have people select things like the line they were on, direction they were travelling, nearest station, time delayed and explanation for delay from lists and only require a short text description.

It would also be a great way to get publicity for P11. As far as I know, you can send a hyperlink in a text message, so commuters could be encouraged to pass on the address to their commuting friends.

Of course it would require some development time, but at least it's using easy and cheap web technology.

Sorry if this idea is too off the wall, but I think it's worth thinking about.

fire an XSL transform at IE's web page to turn it into WML , then add P11 updates as needed.

A nice idea, except that the information on IE's website thends to be rubbish I think we would get a much better response from the travelling public.

[PaulM]

If anyone wants to volunteer to be our texting service feel free. Otherwise it is not an option.