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Unread 25-03-2016, 12:39   #1
Mickey H
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Default New cross border timetable more or less available

The April cross border timetable has been published by translink (journey planner)
SO WHY ARE IRISH SNAIL REFUSING TO DO SO

ex Dublin

0735 unchanged

0935 now departs 0930 arrives 1145

1100 now departs 1120 arrives 1335

1320 unchanged

1650 unchanged

1900 now departs 1850 but still arrives 2105 so 10 minutes slower

2050 is not showing up in translink journey planner

ex Belfast

0650 now departs 0645 arrives 0900

0800 departure unchanged arrives 1005 so 5 min slower

1035 is not showing up in translink journey planner

1405 departure unchanged but arrive 1620 so 3 min slower

1605 unchanged

1805 unchanged

translink are showing a 2005 ex Belfast arriving 2215. This will only work if all three rosters are DD sets

SUNDAY
ex Dublin
1000 1200 1400 1600 all taking 2 hours 8 minutes. There must be another train (1900?) missing from the translink site

ex Belfast
0900 arrive 1120
1105 arrive 1315
1305 arrive 1515
1605 arrive 1815
1905 arrive 2115
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Unread 25-03-2016, 13:29   #2
Jamie2k9
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Because prehaps they are considering what the next move is with the unions and new schedule.

15.20 ex Dub also missing.
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Unread 25-03-2016, 14:44   #3
Mark Gleeson
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Until it is complete, its not really of value

Timetable assumes 3 DD sets available, only two currently available there will be two versions of the timetable as a result.
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Unread 25-03-2016, 15:29   #4
Mickey H
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post

15.20 ex Dub also missing.
And 1235 ex Belfast for that matter. I emailed translink about the missing trains and they replied (unusually quickly for them) that there were none when it is obvious there are
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Unread 26-03-2016, 15:05   #5
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*"Correct" timetables are now in pdf form on the translink site. ALL Lisburn stops of Dublin trains have been removed except one on Sunday.
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Unread 30-03-2016, 17:02   #6
Jamie2k9
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New timetable published today by IE indicates the 3rd DD will enter service on 11 April.

Will we start taling bets that it wont happen and if it does it will breakdown within 7-10 days.

Surly both operators wouldn't of been stupid enough to publish a new timetable only to hace to change it....
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Unread 25-04-2016, 15:40   #7
James Shields
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Just looking at the new Enterprise timetable, and I notice the 20:50 from Connolly is scheduled to arrive in Drogheda at 21:29. I've checked it against the last printed timetable I had (dated 2009, but not much had changed since), and it did previously arrive at 21:20.

If 10-minute DART frequency had started, we could blame that, but it hasn't. Is there any logical reason for adding almost 10 minutes to journey times at a time when there's not much on the line?

I recall when I first moved to Drogheda this service departed at 21:00 and would routinely arrive in Drogheda in 25 minutes. I've heard stories from people using the service much longer than I have of fabled trains that could make the journey in as little as 20 minutes.

The recent changes to the timetable seem utterly pointless, increasing journey times but adding no additional services.

What am I missing?
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Unread 25-04-2016, 16:28   #8
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
Just looking at the new Enterprise timetable, and I notice the 20:50 from Connolly is scheduled to arrive in Drogheda at 21:29. I've checked it against the last printed timetable I had (dated 2009, but not much had changed since), and it did previously arrive at 21:20.

If 10-minute DART frequency had started, we could blame that, but it hasn't. Is there any logical reason for adding almost 10 minutes to journey times at a time when there's not much on the line?

I recall when I first moved to Drogheda this service departed at 21:00 and would routinely arrive in Drogheda in 25 minutes. I've heard stories from people using the service much longer than I have of fabled trains that could make the journey in as little as 20 minutes.

The recent changes to the timetable seem utterly pointless, increasing journey times but adding no additional services.

What am I missing?
Assuming Real Time is correct then the extra 10 minutes is more incompetence from both companies.

Service is scheduled to arrive at 21.29.00 and depart at 21.30.30

14 April
<Arrival>21:20:54</Arrival>
<Departure>21:28:48</Departure> - Early Departure - 1.5 minutes

15 April
<Arrival>21:21:30</Arrival>
<Departure>21:31:12</Departure>

16 April
<Arrival>21:21:48</Arrival>
<Departure>21:27:24</Departure> - Early Departure - 3.5 minutes

18 April
<Arrival>21:23:18</Arrival>
<Departure>21:25:42</Departure> - Early Departure - 4.5 minutes

19 April
<Arrival>21:20:12</Arrival>
<Departure>21:33:00</Departure>

20 Apr
<Arrival>21:23:18</Arrival>
<Departure>21:29:30</Departure> - Early Departure - 1 minute

21 Apr
<Arrival>21:23:06</Arrival>
<Departure>21:32:24</Departure>

22 Apr
<Arrival>21:57:54</Arrival>
<Departure>22:00:36</Departure>
13 mins delayed ex Connolly - so likely missed slots

23 Apr
<Arrival>21:21:54</Arrival>
<Departure>21:24:54</Departure> - Early Departure - 5.5 minutes

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 25-04-2016 at 16:35.
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Unread 25-04-2016, 16:47   #9
berneyarms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Shields View Post
Just looking at the new Enterprise timetable, and I notice the 20:50 from Connolly is scheduled to arrive in Drogheda at 21:29. I've checked it against the last printed timetable I had (dated 2009, but not much had changed since), and it did previously arrive at 21:20.

If 10-minute DART frequency had started, we could blame that, but it hasn't. Is there any logical reason for adding almost 10 minutes to journey times at a time when there's not much on the line?

I recall when I first moved to Drogheda this service departed at 21:00 and would routinely arrive in Drogheda in 25 minutes. I've heard stories from people using the service much longer than I have of fabled trains that could make the journey in as little as 20 minutes.

The recent changes to the timetable seem utterly pointless, increasing journey times but adding no additional services.

What am I missing?
What you are missing is that IE agreed with NIR on a new Enterprise timetable to fit around the new 10 minute DART timetabld.

IE then at the last minute postponed the introduction of the changes to the DART timetable.

NIR had made the changes to their internal timetable to fit around the new Enterprise timetable and would have issued new schedules on the basis that it was going ahead.

Basically the decision not to implement the DART timetable change came too late for NIR to reverse the changes as I understand it.
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Unread 25-04-2016, 17:06   #10
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
What you are missing is that IE agreed with NIR on a new Enterprise timetable to fit around the new 10 minute DART timetabld.

IE then at the last minute postponed the introduction of the changes to the DART timetable.

NIR had made the changes to their internal timetable to fit around the new Enterprise timetable and would have issued new schedules on the basis that it was going ahead.

Basically the decision not to implement the DART timetable change came too late for NIR to reverse the changes as I understand it.
I sense some excuses, the public and IE knew weeks in advance the timetable would not be implemented and even with the proposed 10 minute timetable it was changed after the consultation.

NIR started up upload the new changed timetable just 4 days before IE announced it publicly it was cancelled. Do you really think NIR were not made aware as they were able to adjust the timetable to fit around the differences between draft and what is currently operating.

Perhaps it's not a bad thing to get passengers used to the new normal on the route but at least drivers could comply with the schedule.
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Unread 25-04-2016, 18:29   #11
berneyarms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
I sense some excuses, the public and IE knew weeks in advance the timetable would not be implemented and even with the proposed 10 minute timetable it was changed after the consultation.

NIR started up upload the new changed timetable just 4 days before IE announced it publicly it was cancelled. Do you really think NIR were not made aware as they were able to adjust the timetable to fit around the differences between draft and what is currently operating.

Perhaps it's not a bad thing to get passengers used to the new normal on the route but at least drivers could comply with the schedule.
Clearly you are obviously more privy to IE board meetings and decisions taken at them than the rest of us.

Might it not cross your mind that they actually may have only formally made the decision not to go ahead with the new timetable at or around the time that they told the public?

While it might have been apparent that the unions were not going to co-operate for some time, it certainly was not obvious that the company were not going to try and force it through. That would have been a board decision.

You're also only looking at external timetables - perhaps NIR had already agreed the new timetables internally and issued new working timetables etc.?

Things are never as black and white in the real world as you seem to think.

Last edited by berneyarms : 25-04-2016 at 18:32.
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Unread 25-04-2016, 19:27   #12
James Howard
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Well I'm just an ignorant passenger who spends 15 hours a week on the train so what would I know. But from the outside of the fine organisation that is Irish Rail, it does seem unwise to put yourself in a position where you are forced to withdraw a timetable a week before it is due to go into operation.

Anyway, all of this is hindsight. What is really bad from Jamie2k9's data is that it appears that about half of those trains left BEFORE timetable - in one case, more than five minutes early.
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Unread 25-04-2016, 19:40   #13
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
Clearly you are obviously more privy to IE board meetings and decisions taken at them than the rest of us.

Might it not cross your mind that they actually may have only formally made the decision not to go ahead with the new timetable at or around the time that they told the public?

While it might have been apparent that the unions were not going to co-operate for some time, it certainly was not obvious that the company were not going to try and force it through. That would have been a board decision.

You're also only looking at external timetables - perhaps NIR had already agreed the new timetables internally and issued new working timetables etc.?

Things are never as black and white in the real world as you seem to think.
The issue here is not really the DART schedule but more so the 10 April deadline which became obsolete as soon as IE announced the cancellation of the 10 minute service. There was no obligation to ram a half baked timetable through even if one side had agreed or not. Services could of remained as normal and no changes were required bar removal of the relief morning service and Newary-Bary now Connolly moving to ICR.

But no they went messing with the timetable, did NIR introduce a network wide schedule on 10 April if not the existing schedule could be operating perfectly normal.

Your are totally correct, things are not as clear cut however with IE they it up a level and we see it timetable after timetable.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 25-04-2016 at 19:42.
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Unread 25-04-2016, 19:43   #14
berneyarms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
The issue here is not really the DART schedule but more so the 10 April deadline which became obsolete as soon as IE announced the cancellation of the 10 minute service. There was no obligation to ram a half baked timetable through even if one side had agreed or not. Services could of remained as normal and no changes were required bar removal of the relief morning service and Newary-Bary now Connolly moving to ICR.

But no they went messing with the timetable, did NIR introduce a network wide schedule on 10 April if not the existing schedule could be operating perfectly normal.

Your are totally correct, things are not as clear cut however with IE they it up a level and we see it timetable after timetable.
NIR did issue revised timetables - that is my point.
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Unread 25-04-2016, 19:55   #15
Jamie2k9
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NIR did issue revised timetables - that is my point.
Fair enough but given next to no changes ex Belfast and prehaps services ex Dublin are 10 minutes lather entering NI, I'm sure they would be room for some changes without causing major upset.

Anyway IE would of been able to adjust schedules to meet NI schedules as the DART wasn't going ahead. Examples been 18.50-19.00, I have not check but has anything taken their old paths before 10 April?

Both companies have excelled in the last 6 months, NIR returning DD to service and the mess it has been and IE with the mess they make with schedules.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 25-04-2016 at 19:59.
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Unread 25-04-2016, 22:30   #16
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The current timetable mess on the Belfast line shows Irish Rail's contempt for Enterprise passengers and it's near total lack of ambition for the route.

Services performance can be broken down into a number of categories

1) Trains which cannot run to time unless preceding trains run early, e.g. 0645, 1035 & 1235 from Belfast. As far as I can ascertain only one of these trains has arrived at the published time since April 10th and then on only one occasion.

2) The 0930, 1120, 1320, 1520, 1650 and 2050 from Dublin which idle at or outside Drogheda and Dundalk for anything up to 15 minutes or on occasions depart early.

3) The 0800, 1405, 1605, 1805 and 2005 from Belfast which generally run close to time and even arrive early on occasion.

4) The 1850 from Dublin which struggles to reach Drogheda in 45 minutes, not far off double the journey time of 27 minutes which applied in 1997 and which despite the relatively poor condition of the line between Dublin and Malahide is still achievable. An unobstructed path is available at 1905.

The elephant in the room is poor DART performance and in particular the almost 25% increase in journey time since the service commenced in 1984.

Most of the increase in rail usage in the Dublin area over the decade to 2008 was not DART in any event yet non-DART services are being severely penalised to support a vanity project which is impractical, of little benefit and not required to meet demand.
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Unread 30-06-2016, 17:03   #17
Jamie2k9
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Seasonal (23/6-10/9) return service operating between Belfast and Dublin on Thursdays/Fridays and Saturdays.

Depart Belfast 09.35, Arrive Connolly 11.47 (Thur/Fri), 11.35 (Sat)
Depart Connolly 18.00

Serving Porardown and Newary

If you ask me a full time scheduled service is what it should be!

The time delay on weekdays is quiet steep and it's not because of the Belfast end as it's scheduled for the same run to Newary as DD services.
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Unread 01-07-2016, 06:56   #18
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This service is a bit of a farce in that you have to dig deep into the Translink website to find it. It is not in either the Translink or Irish Rail journey planner and it appears it is only available for day-trips. Patronage so far has been light.

Ironically it fills a long standing gap in the timetable and has the potential, I would have thought, to run daily in each direction.

Irish Rail, as usual, have gone out of their way to facilitate the new service, insisting on the set running empty to and from Drogheda to stable. Is there really no storage for a 3-Car set in Dublin on a normal working day ?

The 12 minute journey time penalty on Thursdays and Fridays as compared to Saturdays is just another indication of how much time is wasted on the Belfast line in giving preference to existing (or non existing DART services).
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Unread 02-07-2016, 14:18   #19
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Quote:
This service is a bit of a farce in that you have to dig deep into the Translink website to find it. It is not in either the Translink or Irish Rail journey planner and it appears it is only available for day-trips. Patronage so far has been light.

Ironically it fills a long standing gap in the timetable and has the potential, I would have thought, to run daily in each direction.

Irish Rail, as usual, have gone out of their way to facilitate the new service, insisting on the set running empty to and from Drogheda to stable. Is there really no storage for a 3-Car set in Dublin on a normal working day ?

The 12 minute journey time penalty on Thursdays and Fridays as compared to Saturdays is just another indication of how much time is wasted on the Belfast line in giving preference to existing (or non existing DART services).
They are making IE look very good in terms of adverting extra services

The 18.00 service ex Dublin has huge potential to be an excellent addition. Not clear what the end to end timing is as it's not listed.

I would say storage may be limited however surly Clontarf Road, Docklands, North Wall could take it especially North Wall. As they are going as far as Drogheda now they should just do another return to/from Belfast in between as they can clearly spare a unit on the bussiest travel days of the week.
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Unread 02-07-2016, 18:19   #20
Mark Gleeson
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Translink could pull the hidden rule in the transport act which allows operation to Dun Laoghaire at no extra cost.
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