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Unread 15-10-2015, 21:34   #41
Jamie2k9
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Yes, there are four seven-piece sets (eight-piece including generator van, excluding loco) although until the collapse of Malahide viaduct, the fleet was typically formed into three sets of eight vehicles (excluding loco).

Current traffic levels frequently exceed the capacity available in the seven+generator formation although it appears there are no plans to restore capacity to pre Malahide collapse levels.
You are not suggesting a relation to both, I expect it was just timing the recession really started to bite at the same time hence the reduction in numbers.

I think platforms may become an issue if an eight was added, not overly sure about Connolly but suspect an eight coach would result in train off the platform EGV and/or loco and possibly blocking access to the next platform as well?
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Unread 15-10-2015, 22:51   #42
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I was on the 2115 t0 Dublin this evening: NIR confirmed the first DD set had travelled South as part of its safety certification and its appearance back in regular traffic is "imminent": the other two sets are far off. As far as I recall although four train sets were planned the Enterprise service was three trains to cover eight round trips each weekday which utilised the bulk of the fleet (24 out of 28 carriages in three train sets).
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Unread 16-10-2015, 12:26   #43
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There was asolutely a relationship between the collapse of Malahide viaduct and the drop in usage of the Enterprise service and northern line commter services generally. There were/are a host of other factors not least of which is service quality, journey time, frequency and reliabilty.

As for platform lengths at Connolly, No 4 would be more than adequate, although not too convenient for the holding pen.
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Unread 19-10-2015, 09:53   #44
James Shields
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I was under the impression that the main reason for reducing enterprise to 7 cars was to reduce the failure rate on 201s under HEP, though other factors such as reduced passenger numbers came into play. If memory serves (and it so often doesn't), I seem to recall it was some time after the restoration of the Malahide viaduct that the 8th car from each set was removed.

There certainly was talk of the extra passenger car being restored with the addition of Mk3 generator vans, however that project ran late and I think the refurbishment started almost immediately after. The sets had been reduced to 6 cars before sets started to be replaced with IE/NIR trains, causing considerable overcrowding.

I expect there will be some disdain from Drogheda/Dundalk commuters when the extra train that runs ahead of the early morning Enterprise is removed.

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Unread 19-10-2015, 12:47   #45
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Original plan was 3 7 car sets and a spare.

The spare used to run as DVT+3 std on the 1840 Connolly-Drogheda/Dundalk in the early days.

HEP wise the problem with HEP was running the engine at 900rpm all the time, the actual load wasn't really at issue
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Unread 19-10-2015, 13:07   #46
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You can certainly hear the difference when an Enterprise was stopped. Before, there was a constant high-pitched roar the whole time. Now (and by "now" I mean when Enterprise stock is running), the loco quietens down to a gentle purr while it's idling.

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Unread 19-10-2015, 13:43   #47
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There are two HEP modes, standby and normal. In normal is 900RPM from the HEP alternator, in standby it uses the main traction alternator and runs at 700 rpm.

Either way its gone and the Mk3 gen van works perfectly. The train in fact accelerates faster now as it has about 300hp more to play with
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Unread 20-10-2015, 08:55   #48
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There are two HEP modes, standby and normal. In normal is 900RPM from the HEP alternator, in standby it uses the main traction alternator and runs at 700 rpm.

Either way its gone and the Mk3 gen van works perfectly. The train in fact accelerates faster now as it has about 300hp more to play with
At least some of the staff working the train see the Mk3 van as somewhat of an achillies heel. There is little doubt that it is an advance on Head End Power but not quiet perfect. It is also an impediment to reversing the 20% cut in standard class seating although the flip side of that is that it may force the operators into running more services on a timetabled rather than an ad-hoc basis.
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Unread 20-10-2015, 11:01   #49
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Is the generator van not able to provide power for 5 standard class cars?

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Unread 20-10-2015, 11:44   #50
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Gen van will power up to 10 coaches, platform lengths particularly in NI cause issues
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Unread 20-10-2015, 16:32   #51
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Where are the platform issues in NI ? Would have thought Connolly would be the biggest issue as a larger train on 2 would block 3.

Last edited by Inniskeen : 20-10-2015 at 16:38.
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Unread 20-10-2015, 18:03   #52
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Lisburn for one
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Unread 20-10-2015, 19:41   #53
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Yes, Lisburn may be a bit short but then the DDs probably have grandfather rights given that the original eight coach formations stopped there for years.
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Unread 21-10-2015, 10:13   #54
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Is there some technical limitation that means the loco and gen van can't stop beyond the end of the platform? As long as the coach doors are all within the limits of the platform, there shouldn't be any passenger issue.

I see what you mean about long trains blocking access to Platform 3 in Connolly (from a quick look at Google maps), but I'm 99% sure that when we had 8-coach constructs, only the loco was past the "kink" in the track. Based on this, it looks like 8 passengers plus gen van plus loco should still be well short of the points.

Personally I'd much prefer greater frequency to longer trains, which could probably have been done at minimal cost when the Mk3s came off the IE network, but I don't hold a lot of hope of that happing in the foreseeable future.

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Unread 21-10-2015, 13:14   #55
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Is there some technical limitation that means the loco and gen van can't stop beyond the end of the platform? As long as the coach doors are all within the limits of the platform, there shouldn't be any passenger issue.

I see what you mean about long trains blocking access to Platform 3 in Connolly (from a quick look at Google maps), but I'm 99% sure that when we had 8-coach constructs, only the loco was past the "kink" in the track. Based on this, it looks like 8 passengers plus gen van plus loco should still be well short of the points.

Personally I'd much prefer greater frequency to longer trains, which could probably have been done at minimal cost when the Mk3s came off the IE network, but I don't hold a lot of hope of that happing in the foreseeable future.

James
It would also depend upon where the signal is located.
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Unread 21-10-2015, 13:22   #56
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And they tend to put then on the platform ends

Also need to be aware of the possibility of running backwards, so you can't assume the loco will be at one end.

The Mk3 idea was kicked around a while back to get 3 sets and a spare made up from the Mk3 fleets, convert the DVT to first and add air con (strip it out of another coach), remove the generator and update to modern crash requirements (read expensive). Overhaul the rest with new doors and toilets per Chiltern in the UK

That would give you 6 sets total which is enough to sustain hourly service, the theory expanded to do 5 Mk3 sets and have one in Cork and Heuston spare (Which Connolly could borrow)
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Unread 31-10-2015, 09:24   #57
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Now that the 22s have been doing Enterprise refurb runs, the excuses for not increasing frequency on the route using them just come down to cash. I would have converted the whole service to 22s but we're too far down the road for that now, sadly.
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Unread 31-10-2015, 10:42   #58
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There are 9 ICR sets cleared for NI if needed

The issue is not just cash, it means stealing them from other services...
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Unread 31-10-2015, 14:30   #59
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Default 1035 ex Belfast 31/10

Unusual movement today: the 1900 ex Dublin was trapped in Belfast last night due to trouble in Lurgan (it was ever thus) last night. The 0735 ex Dublin(an additional 22000 set) was attached to the rear of the regular set which left some forty minutes late for Dublin at 1120 Connolly at 1345 (slight delay at Drogheda as an engineering team did some unspecified task). Train was packed including 31 in First. IE offered a full service so a credit to all concerned and good to see some effective contingency planning. We left from Platform 1 at Central presumably to facilitate the coupling of the two train sets. As we were boarding a GNR liveried steam train and carriages pulled into Platform 2 for a Halloween excursion service.
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Unread 31-10-2015, 17:20   #60
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Was it 2 5 coaches together or did the 07.35 get worked by a 3 coach?

According to a poster on boards one set will return to service on the 9th (06.50) followed by another on 23rd (08.00) and final set should follow soon after and remaining coaches by end of January 2016 individually.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 31-10-2015 at 17:24.
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