Mark on Prime Time

ACustomer · 30-10-2019, 21:58

This link is interesting: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...mand-1.3813067

So in March of this year they hoped for 60 to 80 used UK DMUs plus 41 new intermediate units for strengthening the ICR fleet. The 60 to 80 UK units seem to have fallen by the wayside, leaving the 41 Rotems. A gigantic step backwards. By the way is the latter definitely signed and sealed?

The more newspaper reports one reads the more the impression of things being changed from month to month. Does anyone really know what's going on? And I include The Circus employees in that.

James Shields · 31-10-2019, 16:47

I really thought the idea of UK stock was a bit far fetched. The UK have brought in quite a bit of new stock in the last few years, but most trains being replaced are close to their end of life, and I suspect many would be difficult to make comply with current safety standards. What do we want - Pacers?

The 41 extra coaches are at best a stop gap measure to alleviate the worst overcrowding, but I would expect most of that extra capacity will be immediately filled as soon as they arrive.

I believe there's also a process in place to order up to 600 new DART coaches, which would be a mix of all-electric and bi-mode units (I'm not sure whether a decision has been made on whether they will be diesel-electric or battery-electric yet). I think the earliest these would begin to enter service is around 2024.

It should be noted that the 8100 DART coaches will be 40 years old at this point. They still look good after their mid-life refurb, but part of the new order will probably be replacing them.

This should free up most of the Diesel stock serving the Dublin commuter routes, allowing them to cascade on to other routes.

However a lot of uncomfortable commuters until they arrive, and expect politicians to delay the funding and push things back a few extra years.

berneyarms · 31-10-2019, 17:50

The potential GB stock was Class 185 units that were coming off lease from Transpennine Express (TPE), not pacers.

These would have been suitable units, but there has been slippage in the rollout of new TPE trains and they may now be required elsewhere on the GB network.

Jamie2k9 · 31-10-2019, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by berneyarms

The potential GB stock was Class 185 units that were coming off lease from Transpennine Express (TPE), not pacers.

These would have been suitable units, but there has been slippage in the rollout of new TPE trains and they may now be required elsewhere on the GB network.

The chances of 185s coming were always very low, nobody in IE taught it was even a serious proposal.

ACustomer · 01-11-2019, 13:54

Posted by Jamie 2k9:

Quote:

The chances of 185s coming were always very low, nobody in IE taught it was even a serious proposal.

An interesting point. People in IE probably know a thing or two about what is likely to work. In that case where did the idea of the 185s come from? Somewhere in the NTA, the DOT, TII? i.e from people who by all appearances don't have much of a clue.

This is more serious than it might seem at first sight. The 185 caper probably held up the decision to go ahead with the 41 ROTEM intermediate cars, and in doing so may have caused the price to increase from €100m to €150m.

A brilliant example of The Circus clowns at work?

Jamie2k9 · 01-11-2019, 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACustomer

Posted by Jamie 2k9:

An interesting point. People in IE probably know a thing or two about what is likely to work. In that case where did the idea of the 185s come from? Somewhere in the NTA, the DOT, TII? i.e from people who by all appearances don't have much of a clue.

This is more serious than it might seem at first sight. The 185 caper probably held up the decision to go ahead with the 41 ROTEM intermediate cars, and in doing so may have caused the price to increase from €100m to €150m.

A brilliant example of The Circus clowns at work?

Looking at UK stock coming out of service the 185s are the only DMU option anyway suitable. The rest are either way to old, small or not a DMU.

Not sure how much of a factor in holding up the 22s but they have wasted a lot of time and doesn't inspire much confidence in how they will handle the 600 Bi-mode order...

Mark Gleeson · 10-11-2019, 16:56

The only offers from the UK were for Pacers...

The new 41 is a clear demonstration of how not to order, had we ordered in 2016 we would not be having a discussion today.

All previous orders were made back to back, so the production line, supply chain etc were all in place. It is a start from fresh now.

New units have to have the new Stage V engines with the new more expensive gearbox

10-11-2019, 16:56	#7
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The only offers from the UK were for Pacers... The new 41 is a clear demonstration of how not to order, had we ordered in 2016 we would not be having a discussion today. All previous orders were made back to back, so the production line, supply chain etc were all in place. It is a start from fresh now. New units have to have the new Stage V engines with the new more expensive gearbox __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

30-10-2019, 21:58	#1
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	This link is interesting: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...mand-1.3813067 So in March of this year they hoped for 60 to 80 used UK DMUs plus 41 new intermediate units for strengthening the ICR fleet. The 60 to 80 UK units seem to have fallen by the wayside, leaving the 41 Rotems. A gigantic step backwards. By the way is the latter definitely signed and sealed? The more newspaper reports one reads the more the impression of things being changed from month to month. Does anyone really know what's going on? And I include The Circus employees in that.

31-10-2019, 16:47	#2
James Shields Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Drogheda, Ireland Posts: 1,275	I really thought the idea of UK stock was a bit far fetched. The UK have brought in quite a bit of new stock in the last few years, but most trains being replaced are close to their end of life, and I suspect many would be difficult to make comply with current safety standards. What do we want - Pacers? The 41 extra coaches are at best a stop gap measure to alleviate the worst overcrowding, but I would expect most of that extra capacity will be immediately filled as soon as they arrive. I believe there's also a process in place to order up to 600 new DART coaches, which would be a mix of all-electric and bi-mode units (I'm not sure whether a decision has been made on whether they will be diesel-electric or battery-electric yet). I think the earliest these would begin to enter service is around 2024. It should be noted that the 8100 DART coaches will be 40 years old at this point. They still look good after their mid-life refurb, but part of the new order will probably be replacing them. This should free up most of the Diesel stock serving the Dublin commuter routes, allowing them to cascade on to other routes. However a lot of uncomfortable commuters until they arrive, and expect politicians to delay the funding and push things back a few extra years.

31-10-2019, 17:50	#3
berneyarms Really Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 602	The potential GB stock was Class 185 units that were coming off lease from Transpennine Express (TPE), not pacers. These would have been suitable units, but there has been slippage in the rollout of new TPE trains and they may now be required elsewhere on the GB network.