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Unread 29-10-2019, 12:04   #1
James Shields
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Default Mark on Prime Time

Here's a brief clip from Prime Time featuring Mark Gleeson talking about overcrowding and ordering more coaches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nezz...ature=youtu.be
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Unread 30-10-2019, 09:54   #2
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An interesting clip, but it raises more questions than it answers.

First, it implies that there are 41 "carriages" (DMU vehicles) which will arrive late 2020 or sometime in 2021, Is this the mooted 2nd-hand pruchase/lease of UK units? I have heard that this deal fell through when the asking price shot up due to an emerging shortage of rolling stock in the UK, which of course should cause a re-evaluation of refurbishing the 2700s

Second, no mention of the hoped-for new stock partly to cater for extended electrification.

Third, no mention of any move at all on the necessary fixed equipment (OHLE, substations, etc) for electrification.

Fourth, no acknowledgement that the constraint on peak hour capacity is not just rolling stock, but also track layout and signalling at pinch points.

A final point is that journalists appear to be woefully ignorant about railway operations, and don't know what critical questions to ask. Also they can be easily fobbed off with corporate bulls**t.
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Unread 30-10-2019, 10:46   #3
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The 41 carriages are middle 22000 carriages which have yet to be ordered. IE had said in service by mid 2021 but its going to be mid 2022 unless NTA get a move on.

There is no leased stock from UK, NTA just wasted time and money and not held accountable for there actions.
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Unread 30-10-2019, 10:47   #4
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I think I know the answer to the first question. I believe there is the possibility of ordering additional middle coaches from Hyundai/Rotem to lengthen the 22000 sets. I believe this is only about adding capacity to existing services, not about new sets for additional services. I'm not sure if this is just a possibility, or if the cheque has been signed.

I agree with all your other points. The only questions being asked are about adding capacity to the existing services.

It mentions a rise in train usage to 75 million journeys over the next 6 years. 41 extra coaches certainly won't be sufficient to cater for that.
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Unread 30-10-2019, 16:53   #5
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I've just had a look at the websites of members of "The Circus" (i.e the TII, the NTA, DOT, and IE ) to see what they have to say about investment in rail transport.

TII have some stuff about LUAS, but apart from longer Green Line trams, there is virtually nothing. Apparently heavy rail has nothing to do with transport infrastructure.

NTA have a 1-minute video on Dart Expansion: purely promotional with nothing of operational significance. Incidentally the photo beside the link to the video shows a 2600 railcar at Cork, complete with (now removed) semaphore signals. Really on the ball are the NTA.

DOT have virtually nothing to add to the previous two, except the inevitable front page photo of a grinning Shane Ross.

IE have some more detail, but also stuff like mention of a line to Navan, with a note saying this project is deferred. They also have stuff on a new rail control centre, as well as the city centre signalling project which of course is a project that has been going on for decades. On DART expansion there is more detail on the IE site, but no timelines. The list of things to do to the fixed infrastructure is quite detailed and clearly an urgent start is needed to get any real results within a decade.

I know websites are not the whole story, but they do tell us something. The standout for me is that everything is structured so that delays or indecision can always be attributed to other members of The Circus. That way no-one can take any blame, apart perhaps from the smiling clown in the centre ring.
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Unread 30-10-2019, 17:31   #6
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So approval today for 41 carriages.

The price tag jumped 50 million to 150 million or 3.6m per carriage. The previous orders were about 2.2-4 million per coach.

Anyone explain how there is such a price jump?

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-...ete_Online.pdf

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 30-10-2019 at 17:37.
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Unread 30-10-2019, 17:48   #7
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Well the cynical answer is simple economics. In the original tender there were multiple bidders competing for the contract. I would assume that if there was any option for extra units in the original contract, it's long expired. Bottom line is there is only one supplier (and certainly only one supplier who can produce them reasonably quickly), and IÉ have to pay what they want to charge.

A slightly less cynical answer is that Hyundai/Rotem have to dust off a 12-year old design for a relatively small production run, so it's only natural that costs have risen.
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