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View Poll Results: Do you want faster journey times & a higher priority between Bray & Connolly?
Faster journey times? 10 76.92%
Bray to Connolly a higher priority? 4 30.77%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 04-04-2008, 11:32   #1
KSW
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Default Rosslare Europort/Dublin Connolly

I was reading alot to do with the Rosslare|Dublin route yesterday and today I think I'II post a new thread.

How many units do you think will be given for the Rosslare|Dublin service?

I read from Fine Gael www.finegael.ie/news/index.cfm/type/details/nkey/33412 that it takes Dublin to Arklow/Gorey the same time as to Belfast, Despite the growth of 20%. There was a report from Buchannan commissioned by Wicklow County Counsil which had all the nesscary plans for the upgrade of the line. This is no doubt the slowest InterCity route in Ireland for the 105mile journey end to end.
Richard Fearne is "Quick to point out this a lesson learnt from the provincial days on BR. Increase frequencies and people will come back"
How many people would simply love it if their journeys were slashed 10mins from the time meaning faster train travel. The resignalling I really am delighted with (who isnt ) we should start to see improvments from now onwards!!!!!!!!.......

Last edited by KSW : 18-04-2008 at 20:21.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 11:44   #2
ThomasJ
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Will they risk the passenger numbers on the BUSY southside DART line BRAY/CONNOLLY to appease Rosslare passengers? I have my doubts....

On a side note, I don't think you are going to get faster times without resolving the Dublin to Bray section so I think the poll is pointless

Last edited by ThomasJ : 04-04-2008 at 13:15.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 14:05   #3
plant43
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The Dart will always get priority with Irish Rail and nothing will change that. The same kind of nonsense happens on the Northern Line as well, with commuter trains being help up behind Dart trains that are late.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 14:09   #4
ThomasJ
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But the thing is plant43 some DART passengers [particulary at southside services] have the opinion that its because of these commuter/intercity services that there can be a wait of upto 20 minutes on occasions. The DART has got worse over the years due to the increase in commuter services
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Unread 04-04-2008, 14:39   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSW View Post

How many units do you think will be given for the Rosslare|Dublin service?

.
I reckon with what is going on with Belfast and Cork services (problems with their train sets) there may be sacrifices.... just don't know where?

although I say 3 * 3 coaches of 22k

Last edited by ThomasJ : 04-04-2008 at 14:46.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 14:44   #6
Edward Ryan
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I would like to think the introduction of the 22K will bring about a reduction in journey times but I very much doubt it. Between Connolly and Bray the DART has priority and that wont change.

As KSW pointed out the padding in the current timetable south of Bray is way too much. The 2800 Class often wait five or more min at stations awaiting time and this would be a lot more with a 22K type train.

I think IE plan to introduce three 3 car 22K on to the route for Rosslare services and retain the 2800 class on the Gorey/Enniscorthy Commuter services. My concern is that the 22K will not cope with Some of the busier Rosslare services.

Ed
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Unread 04-04-2008, 14:50   #7
Edward Ryan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasJ View Post
I reckon with what is going on with Belfast and Cork services (problems with their train sets) there may be sacrifices.... just don't know where?

TD's on the WRC are also calling for 22K trains to be introduced between Galway and Limerick when it opens. I just hope the Rosslare 22K are not diverted there.

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Unread 04-04-2008, 15:04   #8
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I hope none of the 22k go to the WRC....

There have been occasions where politics has intefered in the process for the wrong reasons and this would be one of them.

I just think it would be a waste to utilise the 22ks on the WRC and can think of alot of services that should get them ahead of it.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 15:12   #9
Mark Gleeson
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Southside DART represents over 95% of journeys between Bray and Connolly, and deserves priority

These issues have been discussed to death here before and the facts are there is no business case to invest heavily in the Rosslare service, the numbers don't stack up and are even worse than the western rail corridor

There are major journey time reductions coming in Dec 2008 as the combination of new trains and better signaling kick in, however most of this is likely to be south of Gorey
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Unread 04-04-2008, 15:44   #10
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City services should always get priority over suburban services, otherwise we're encouraging sprawl and long distance commuting. It's not a great thing to hear if you live in the sprawl and depend on suburban services but it's the only sustainable way to do things.
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Unread 04-04-2008, 18:13   #11
Edward Ryan
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Is there any plan to recast the very patchy DART timetable? If the DART timetable was clockface this could benifit Rosslare Intercity services perhaps reducing the Connolly - Bray journey time to 30 min. Surely this could be possible at off peak times?

Ed
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Unread 04-04-2008, 21:43   #12
KSW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
These issues have been discussed to death here before There are major journey time reductions coming in Dec 2008 as the combination of new trains and better signaling kick in
These issues have been discussed before but this thread will hopefully sum it up. When you mention major journey times coming in Dec08, There is something that has'nt been mentioned before. I hope they keep that in mind !!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasJ View Post
But the thing is plant43 some DART passengers [particulary at southside services] have the opinion that its because of these commuter/intercity services that there can be a wait of upto 20 minutes on occasions. The DART has got worse over the years due to the increase in commuter services
I also understand that the DART as to be given priority BUT (there's that word) there is only 3 Rosslare services per day that travel from Connolly to Rosslare(Direct)I just think that these three should be given just that little more attention.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasJ View Post
On a side note, I don't think you are going to get faster times without resolving the Dublin to Bray section so I think the poll is pointless
I personally think that if the Rosslare train was to change tracks a number of times on route to Bray that the 25-30min time can be archiveable without touching the DART travelling to Bray and the DART coming from Bray. The poll, I wanted to see which would people chose in the way of speed or the bray to connolly section. Which was more important, So far faster journey times from Bray onwards seems to be the winner so the section after all might not be that important to passengers who use it every weekday.!!!!!!!! I have one word InterCity
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Unread 04-04-2008, 21:58   #13
Mark Gleeson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSW View Post
I have one word InterCity
Start a campaign to get city status for Wexford so

The best time between Connolly and Bray is fixed at 35 minutes assuming a DART every 15 minutes, only 9 minutes can be made up.

15+ minutes can be chopped off the Rosslare time south of Greystones
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Unread 04-04-2008, 22:24   #14
KSW
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Start a campaign to get city status for Wexford so
Im not saying city status but look at Sligo and Westport they are not cities fair enough large popultions but still not cities

Connolly and Bray 35 minutes assuming a DART every 15 minutes, only 9 minutes can be made up.
15mins I knew it was around that!! Can a train from Bray to Gorey take 1hr if so Connolly to Gorey 1hr35mins it would certainly be friendly to look at rather than the almost 2hrs.....

Cheers Mark....
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Unread 07-04-2008, 19:11   #15
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WRC should get 2751 and 2753 - 53 seats and a toilet. Like Ennis and Nenagh they should get minimum capacity until they prove the demand.
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Unread 07-04-2008, 19:46   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Start a campaign to get city status for Wexford so
InterBorough?
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Unread 07-04-2008, 22:36   #17
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I think this line should be closed south of Bray once the N11 upgrades are complete. Its a joke thats costing tax payers a fortune and has very limited development potential that cannot be served by the private car and expressway bus. Its not and never will be an intercity line. Neither does it provide any additional benefit to Rosslare Europort. Likewise the line from Rosslare to Waterford should be scaled back to make it a viable commuter line to Waterford city.

The only reason the rosslare line is still open is because of the europort and its IE link. They wanted to cut it short at Enniscorthy, but realistically the line is redundant after Bray. I say close it. Greystones doesn't need its quaint little "DART" service and the maintenence costs that go with it. Wicklow, Arklow and Gorey "commuters" would get more benefit and efficiency from improved roads and express buses. The argument applied to closing certain railways in the 60s has actually got more relevence now than it did then.

Im not deliberately setting out to be controversial, but the line is sucking funds from the likes of Waterford - Limerick, which in effect is an InterCity line. If we are to go the WRC route (Limerick - Glaway and all its faults) then lets apply decent thinking to lines that link population centres. The Rosslare line's population decreases as it travels southwards. I don't often support IE, but I think they are right in relation to this particular line. Its an opinion Ive had for a long time, but can express now.
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Unread 09-04-2008, 15:15   #18
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i'm sure you're just being provocative as usual, but quaint or not the line south of Bray is well used for the commuter services at least. Slow as it is the DART is the quickest method of commuting from Greystones to Dublin and closing it would put a lot of extra cars on the road.

South of Gorey is debatable - they certainly shouldn't keep pushing the commuter terminus further south as it will just encourage more long distance commuting.

I agree theres no point spending big money on the line - the benefits would be negligible, but like practically all other lines it could do with better timetabling and less padding.
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Unread 09-04-2008, 15:25   #19
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This line has parallels with the Settle to Carlisle line in the UK. Propose closing it, and the rail enthusiast lobby will go nuts. I'd keep it open for strategic reasons, such as oil shortages at some point in the future.

It was the first route I used. I still use it when I am back home. But they won't get better than 2 hours 30 minutes out of it between Dublin and Rosslare. There is a lot of padding, and that padding is there to discourage usage, and run it down towards closure. Thats been the case since 1987. It is the case today. Since I don't use it as much anymore, then thats my view. What about the people who do. But usage is dwindling, so is confidence. There are raiilways (worldwide) like this one with beautiful scenery, but when you go to a bar at the end of travelling and you are asked "How did you get here", and you say "train", a look of shock and disbelief results. A look that says "You subjected yourself to that crap".

The competition, on the N11, is of a far higher quality. As far as Iarnrod Eireann are concerned, the Dublin to Rosslare line has been a great advertisement for car dealerships throughout the land. Granted, they have made an effort to change that, but by its very nature, the game will be up if/when a recession hits the country, and Iarnrod Eireanns costs come under review.

How much is it losing per annum. It was losing 4 Million Pounds in the mid to late 90's. I'd easily say its costing 10 Million Euro these days.

Theres very little that can realistically be done with it. I always said "Do it up or close it down", and have no half measures in that respect. It has been done up, but not done up enough to restore confidence. The N11 is like a TGV by comparison. It takes 1 hour to Gorey from Dublin now on that. Bus Eireann can get 1 hour 30 if they tried. The best Iarnrod Eireann can do, and I observed was/is 1 hour 22 minutes.

Last edited by dermo88 : 09-04-2008 at 15:34.
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Unread 09-04-2008, 20:56   #20
Colm Donoghue
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the railcars and dart upgrade* really dented the lines usage.

the N11 improvements have made the bus route far faster, no queuing on Rathnew hill or from the green lizard bends into Ashford.

when I was finishing college it was dearer for a bus student return than a tran student return from Dubln to Arklow cos it was faster and had more and later services.


*upgrade on some stations, some aren't upgraded even though an bord pleanála gave them permission
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