New 22K trains

[Kilkea]

Just spotted brand spanking new 3x3 car sets at Heuston this morning in the sidings with temp numbers on them. Any idea when these will be tested and rolled out for general use? Will this mean another revised timetable or will they just solve all the 3 car overcrowding which is all over the place?

[Mark Gleeson]

Just means longer trains.

It will be some months before they are fully tested

The number is actually the short version of the official european/uic number/evn

So you end up with some guff like this 55 60 89 89605-5 which was formerly just 7605

[Jamie2k9]

A little of topic but where have IE moved the 3 sets of Mark3 from Heuston. They gone with a while. 2200 are generally down beside plt 10 where they used to be. Have they sold them?

[Kilocharlie]

From the Irish Rail Facebook page:

We’ve just taken delivery of the first 12 of 57 new Intercity railcar carriages on order, a fleet expansion worth €140 million, at Dublin Port.

The remainder of the full order will be delivered through the rest of this year and early 2012, and you’ll see them roll out across the network from later this year.

We’ll put them where demand is greatest, and we’re also talking to Translink about possible use on extra Enterprise services, for an hourly service between Dublin and Belfast.

The order completes the transformation of Iarnród Éireann’s Intercity fleet from the oldest to the newest in Western Europe, along with the 67 CAF (Mark IV) carriages on the Dublin-Cork route.

This fleet was ordered from Mitsui of Japan, in partnership with Hyundai Rotem of the Republic of Korea and Tokyu Car Corporation of Japan, and were manufactured in Korea. The fleet was funded by the Exchequer under the transport capital investment programme.

[karlr42]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

A little of topic but where have IE moved the 3 sets of Mark3 from Heuston. They gone with a while. 2200 are generally down beside plt 10 where they used to be. Have they sold them?

No, they were just moved to North Wall to make room.

[Mark Gleeson]

But none of the 51 new units are fitted for cross border service and none have first class. Only 6 3 car sets are fitted for NIR use, none have first

Translink turned down the 4 million cost of 50% of the Mk3 fleet option, so very much doubt cross border will happen. The problem is the ongoing cost which neither side are willing to bear. Irish Rail talk a lot with Translink, Translink listen a lot but rarely say anything.

Rosslare will get extra services, extra capacity on Galway/Westport/Waterford and long distance commuter will be ICR as well

[comcor]

Will they take the commuter carriages off the Wexford service.

Dun Laoghaire-Wexford seemed an awful long way on a commuter railcar.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

But none of the 51 new units are fitted for cross border service and none have first class. Only 6 3 car sets are fitted for NIR use, none have first

Translink turned down the 4 million cost of 50% of the Mk3 fleet option, so very much doubt cross border will happen. The problem is the ongoing cost which neither side are willing to bear. Irish Rail talk a lot with Translink, Translink listen a lot but rarely say anything.

Rosslare will get extra services, extra capacity on Galway/Westport/Waterford and long distance commuter will be ICR as well

Irish Rail need to seriously improve their longer distance commuter offering on the northern line. Improving Enterprise frequency and fast commuter services would be a very positive move in the right direction. Given the avalanche of new ICRs (and some spare capacity on the NIR side), I would be surprised if some progress is not made in this direction. ICRs would supplement, not replace De-Dietrich stock.

Reference in other posts to the condition of NIR track is a little misplaced given the litany of track/bridge related speed restrictions currently in place on Irish Rail - Connolly/East Wall, Clongriffin, Malahide, Laytown, Drogheda and Dundalk.

[Mark Gleeson]

The majority of delays are on the NIR side and have been for some time

And as Translink admit

PASSENGER INFORMATION: Enterprise Services - Due to essential maintenance works delays of around 10 minutes are anticipated on all Cross Border rail services until further notice. Everything possible will be done to minimise delays. NI Railways and Iarnród Éireann apologise to all passengers for the inconvenience caused.

This is due mainly as a result of speed restrictions over long sections in Northern Ireland which were not relaid during the upgrade program

There are several bad sections on both sides of Lisburn

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The majority of delays are on the NIR side and have been for some time

This is due mainly as a result of speed restrictions over long sections in Northern Ireland which were not relaid during the upgrade program

There are several bad sections on both sides of Lisburn

The only "long section" of line subject to speed restriction in Northern Ireland is the 7 mile stretch between Moira and Lisburn which is currently restricted to 60 mph. In my experience by far the greatest source of delay to cross border services arises from poor scheduling and poor traffic management, most of it south of Drogheda. For example it is absolutely routine for out of course DART trains to wander onto the Belfast line just north of Connolly immediately ahead of an Enterprise departure. The same practice is routine southbound at Howth Junction and Malahide. This nonsense alone can result in a delay of 10 to 15 minutes.

The most disruptive speed restriction of late was the 10 mph at Laytown due to the seriously sub-standard condition of Bridge No 72 over the River Nanny. The delays associated with this restriction were the reason for the NIR advisory you quote. As I said in my previous post the line south of Drogheda is riddled with speed restrictions although there has been some improvement in recent months.

[Mark Gleeson]

The standard test set does include repeated door opening and closing. The trains under test are owned by the manufacturer and they pay.

The test is basically a shakedown to make sure everything is bolted down. A series of static tests is done first to confirm everything works.

[Mark Gleeson]

Problem is in a 6 coach set one end of the train will have the wheelchair and bike spaces. So you would absolutely have to use a 2 * 3 set at all times even then there would be chaos with reservations depending on which way around the train is on the day in question

The computer driven selective door solution is far better

[sublimity]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The computer driven selective door solution is far better

Yes, but do you have any indication when this is going to happen?

[longword]

I don't know if it means anything but this morning's 07:00 Dundalk to Connolly is operated by a 22k, six carriages I think (I'm in coach F). First time I've seen one on the route. Will be intersting to see how it copes with the passenger loads. Seats fairly full leaving Balbriggan.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by longword

I don't know if it means anything but this morning's 07:00 Dundalk to Connolly is operated by a 22k, six carriages I think (I'm in coach F). First time I've seen one on the route. Will be intersting to see how it copes with the passenger loads. Seats fairly full leaving Balbriggan.

Well if they want to charge fares based on an express service, they need to radically improve the service offering. This might be a small first step. Next move should be to start this train out of Newry at 0645 or indeed Belfast at 0600, loose a few stops and arrive around Dublin at 0800.

As regards seats (traditionally strictly rationed on the northern line), there are substantially more on a six car 22k v an 8-car 29k.

Had the luxury of travelling into to Heuston during the morning peak last Friday. About 100-110 passengers shared 2x3x22k. The next train, a similar formation, had an equally modest load.

[longword]

Wasn't too crazy overcrowded, but did suffer from there being little or no standing space around the doors and there was a space left in the aisles. Took a bit longer than normal to get everyone out the door at Connolly too. All exactly what you'd expect really.

I don't think there's much hope of a 6-car 22k coping with the passenger loads that are currently served by a full 8-car 29k. Seats are nice and all but like most commuter services in the world, they need the standing room. That 07:00 from Dundalk usually runs with a 4-car 29k, less popular I guess because it doesn't serve stations beyond Connolly while the two services either side of it do.

On the bright side, the 22ks are quieter and seem more RF-friendly. Might have just been the day in it but I didn't lose 3G signal the whole journey, normally there's a few blackspots. Also got solid GPS reception.

[Mark Gleeson]

A 6 piece set is likely to do the Newry service will cut times by 10 minutes

The plan once the signalling is sorted is to run some express services from Dundalk/Drogheda so there will be more services and more seats for all

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

A 6 piece set is likely to do the Newry service will cut times by 10 minutes

The plan once the signalling is sorted is to run some express services from Dundalk/Drogheda so there will be more services and more seats for all

"Sorting out" the signalling is not a pre-requisite for express services from Drogheda & Dundalk. Sufficient additional workings could be relatively easily accommodated within the existing infrastructure, provided they operated to/from Connolly only.

The yet to be commissioned signalling does a number of things, none of which particularly facilitate express services. The main feature will be additional intermediate signals between Malahde and Grand Canal Dock which will theoretically allow reduced headways although, if the signalling system is utilised to capacity, all trains will have to trave at the speed of the slowest trains and therefore journey time from Malahide will be dictated by DART and will average little more than 20mph, irrespective of the service, expess or otherwise.

Crucially, the new signalling does nothing to sort out the dysfunctional layout at Malahide and will see overtaking facilities commissioned in only one direction at Clongriffin.

While it will be possible to turn trains back towards the city at both Clongriffin and Bayside, these features are unlikely to be much used unless the Malahide or Howth DART services are curtailed at these locations.

[karlr42]

It's been reported on an enthusiast's site that the 22000s used on Sligo and Rosslare services have been moved to Drogheda as their depot, instead of swapping with Heuston side services to go to Portlaoise. Presumably this is why they might be seen more often now on the Northern line.

[longword]

The service was operated by a 22k every morning last week and this morning. Seems to be a trend.