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Unread 27-05-2018, 22:00   #1
sublimity
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Default 13:05 Dublin - Sligo 25th May

Took this train on Friday to Sligo and I was genuinely horrified when I realised it was a 29K at the platform.

Some of my friends had to stand for the whole journey. The toilets were also filthy.

How can Irish Rail justify using these commuter trains for a 3 hour journey all the way to Sligo?

I cannot believe they are still being used. Can they not use a MK4 if there are no 22ks available?

All trains to Sligo should be of intercity standard.

I will be lodging a complaint to Irish Rail tomorrow.
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Unread 27-05-2018, 22:40   #2
Jamie2k9
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You are wasting your time complaining, its been a 2900 for years however was briefly replaced by a 22000 for a few months but I guess numbers exceeded capacity.

The Mark IV are not available either.
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Unread 28-05-2018, 10:52   #3
Inniskeen
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I don't think it has anything to do with capacity on the 1305 - the 4 car 2900 provides less seats than the ICR.

The set of the 1305 is used to augment the 1600 to Sligo on Fridays. There are alternatives

1) Run the standard sized 1600 Sligo non stop Drumcondra to Mullingar (or beyond) on a Friday with a 29k relief to Mullingar.

2) Requision an ICR from either the Docklands/M3 Parkway or Grand Canal Dock/Newbridge service and substitute with the 29k currently used on the 1305.
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Unread 28-05-2018, 12:49   #4
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Icrs should not be used on m3 parkway. They don't have the capacity and are known to leave passengers on that line on the platform as theres no space on board.

Direct switch
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Unread 28-05-2018, 16:24   #5
sublimity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie2k9 View Post
You are wasting your time complaining, its been a 2900 for years however was briefly replaced by a 22000 for a few months but I guess numbers exceeded capacity.

The Mark IV are not available either.
Well the more people complain about this, the better the chance of Irish Rail actually doing something about this.
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Unread 28-05-2018, 16:27   #6
sublimity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inniskeen View Post
I don't think it has anything to do with capacity on the 1305 - the 4 car 2900 provides less seats than the ICR.

The set of the 1305 is used to augment the 1600 to Sligo on Fridays. There are alternatives

1) Run the standard sized 1600 Sligo non stop Drumcondra to Mullingar (or beyond) on a Friday with a 29k relief to Mullingar.

2) Requision an ICR from either the Docklands/M3 Parkway or Grand Canal Dock/Newbridge service and substitute with the 29k currently used on the 1305.
I like the second option
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Unread 28-05-2018, 16:28   #7
sublimity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasJ View Post
Icrs should not be used on m3 parkway. They don't have the capacity and are known to leave passengers on that line on the platform as theres no space on board.

Direct switch
Agreed Thomas. Let's hope this happens soon.
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Unread 29-05-2018, 21:53   #8
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inniskeen View Post
I don't think it has anything to do with capacity on the 1305 - the 4 car 2900 provides less seats than the ICR.

The set of the 1305 is used to augment the 1600 to Sligo on Fridays. There are alternatives

1) Run the standard sized 1600 Sligo non stop Drumcondra to Mullingar (or beyond) on a Friday with a 29k relief to Mullingar.

2) Requision an ICR from either the Docklands/M3 Parkway or Grand Canal Dock/Newbridge service and substitute with the 29k currently used on the 1305.
It is a capacity issue, the 13.00 cannot cope with a 4 ICR due to overcrowding hence the 2900 is used instead.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 29-05-2018 at 21:58.
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Unread 30-05-2018, 21:16   #9
Inniskeen
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A 4 car ICR has around 280 seats, a 4 car 2900 about 190. The 1305 Sligo (on a Friday or any other day) wouldn't typically load more 300 passengers. The reasons for the Friday arrangement is to release the 1305 set to strengthen the 1600.
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Unread 30-05-2018, 22:20   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inniskeen View Post
A 4 car ICR has around 280 seats, a 4 car 2900 about 190. The 1305 Sligo (on a Friday or any other day) wouldn't typically load more 300 passengers. The reasons for the Friday arrangement is to release the 1305 set to strengthen the 1600.
The issue is, if there are more than 280 on board, there's not much standing room.

I have done it before and i can tell You it is not a nice experience standing on a 22k. It's far better standing on the 29k trains .
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Unread 31-05-2018, 13:48   #11
Inniskeen
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The point I am making is that there are rarely 280 or more passengers on the 1305 to Sligo on a Friday or any other day. So by subsituting a 29k you are degrading the customer experience considerably by offering less seats, more noise and little or no luggage space.

There is a surprising amount of standing space on an ICR but the corridors and vestibule sizes make ingress and egress difficult and unpleasant. Mind you a hopelessly stuffed 2900 is not a pleasant experience eithet.
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Unread 31-05-2018, 23:07   #12
ACustomer
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On the customer-merits of 22k ICRs versus 29k scommuter stock on the Sligo line, take
Quote:
A 4 car ICR has around 280 seats, a 4 car 2900 about 190
(Inniskeen),
Quote:
it is not a nice experience standing on a 22k. It's far better standing on the 29k trains
(ThomasJ) and
Quote:
there are rarely 280 or more passengers on the 1305 to Sligo on a Friday or any other day
(Inniskeen).

I assume the choice is between 4-ICR and 8-29k (4-29k is obviously inferior on any count). This is effectively a choice between 280 seats (ICR) and 380 seats (29k). Assuming 300 to 350 passengers this means 280 seated comfortably in the ICR with 20 to 70 standing, probably only as far as Mullingar for the most part. While they will all be seated on the 29k they will not be nearly as comfortable. You have to look at the comfort of both seated and standees, plus the numbers involved and the likely duration of having to stand.

In my opinion the ICR scores best in this situation.

Last edited by ACustomer : 31-05-2018 at 23:09.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 07:41   #13
Inniskeen
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Just to be clear, we are taking about a 4 car 2900 operating the 1305 on a Friday , so if you had 350 passengers at least 160 would be standing. On a 4 × ICR, the number standing would be 70. To be honest I am not sure whether the normal 1305 formation is a 3 or a 4 car ICR.
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Unread 01-06-2018, 14:23   #14
Jamie2k9
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4 car is 264 seated. Inniskeen are your passenger estimates reliable because I was always under the impression it they needed to run a 7 car instead of the usual 4 car. Student traffic should be heavy on this service and there was differently reports of overcrowding in the past (i.e when it was 4 car, 2900 before reverting back to 4 car and now 2900).

The 15.05 is increased from 4 to 7 and I suspect the 16.00 was only 4 however, the latest reasoning behind the return of the 2900 may be to have also increased the 16.00 to 7 as well.

Between 40-60 standing on a 4 car ICR can become very cramped when you add baggage as well so if numbers are 350 then you can see why a 4 car 2900 has replaced a 4 car ICR.

Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 01-06-2018 at 14:27.
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Unread 04-06-2018, 18:12   #15
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Quote:
“Iarnród Éireann will be introducing a 10-minute frequency on DART services, additional off-peak services on the Maynoothline, an additional service in each direction on the Sligo line and new off-peak services on the Kildare line operating through the Phoenix Park tunnel.
Bold text: my emphasis

Source:
https://www.nationaltransport.ie/new...-numbers-jump/
Published Sunday 3rd June. Aside: rather unusual to release over a bank holiday weekend.
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Unread 04-06-2018, 18:41   #16
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I would imagine this is simply reinstating the trains that were cut from the timetable during the recession to cut costs.

Restoring the 07:05 and 09:05 ex-Dublin and the 17:00 and 19:00 ex-Sligo which were merged.
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Unread 05-06-2018, 07:57   #17
Inniskeen
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Hope the NTA & Irish Rail are following the timetable change chaos saga in the UK. Ten minute DART alone will generate unwanted congestion, adding additional Maynooth and Kildare services as well should ensure near peak period congestion all day. Expect a much less reliable timetable, increased cancellations (particularly of Greystones services) and even slower journey times for longer distance users on the northern, eastern and midland lines. Not very clever or progressive at all.

While off peak frequency increases on the Maynooth line and to a lesser extent on the Kilare line are justifiable and just about deliverable, a 50% increase in DART is neither required nor operationall sustainable.
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Unread 05-06-2018, 08:11   #18
Inniskeen
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Incidentally restoration of the early morning service to Sligo and the later evening return service together with, I assume, the re-scheduling of the 0800 from Dublin and the 1800 from Sligo requires no additional rolling stock.
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Unread 05-06-2018, 18:03   #19
berneyarms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inniskeen View Post
Hope the NTA & Irish Rail are following the timetable change chaos saga in the UK. Ten minute DART alone will generate unwanted congestion, adding additional Maynooth and Kildare services as well should ensure near peak period congestion all day. Expect a much less reliable timetable, increased cancellations (particularly of Greystones services) and even slower journey times for longer distance users on the northern, eastern and midland lines. Not very clever or progressive at all.

While off peak frequency increases on the Maynooth line and to a lesser extent on the Kilare line are justifiable and just about deliverable, a 50% increase in DART is neither required nor operationall sustainable.
That’s a lot of doom and gloom predicted there.

Given that DART running times are to increase (per the last draft) to reflect reality that should mean greater reliability not poorer.

Let’s wait and see before being unduly negative.
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Unread 05-06-2018, 19:07   #20
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Just to add that the reasons for the collapse of the service with Northern Rail are:

1) Delays in delivering infrastructure improvements by Network Rail resulting in insufficient drivers completing route learning and rolling stock being cascaded elsewhere in line with contracted dates before the electrification is in place.

2) The existing rest day working with crews not being renewed.

3) A complete redraft of the new timetable being required with only 3 month notice - pretty much impossible

Both of the first two mean insufficient drivers to drive the trains and hence we have chaos.

None of these should apply to IE with regard to their new timetable.

Last edited by berneyarms : 05-06-2018 at 19:12.
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