Metro North Route

[colmoc]

I would agree with the opinion that elevated does attract a degree of anti social behaviour but it does not create that anti social behaviour. these individuals already partake in this behaviour elsewhere but will be attracted by the cover an elevated line provides.

Solution design an elevated section which is well lit (single supporting pylons so no area under the line is obscured from view) well serviced by cctv (this includes monitering the footage), is well patrolled by gardai (not going to happen but put it in anyway) and most importantly is within a busy focal point for people to congregate (have open businesses in the area).

When elevated sections of track are stuck down side streets the they do have a tendency to become "dodgy places" (see areas of Sydney if you dont believe me Kings cross to bondi in particular)

With regard the underground option if the metro is an open system then this would lead to much more anti social behaviour.

[PaulM]

Why not try doing something clever with the elevated section, put kiosks underneath or something that will attract people to the area and keep those bridge dwelling trolls away?

[Gobdaw]

Originally Posted by Paul Mulcahy

Why not try doing something clever with the elevated section, put kiosks underneath or something that will attract people to the area and keep those bridge dwelling trolls away?

Paul, we're talking several miles of "elevated section". What has been suggested by RPA is a ballymun solution not acceptable elsewhere in Dublin. It will march down the centre of Ballymun Road like a Berlin Wall. It will be no addition to the regeneration being carried out by Dublin City Co. It will look what it is, the cheap solution for a percieved cheap part of the city.

It's a row just waiting for it's day.

I understood that the largest costs in tunnelling was the insertion and recovery pits for the TBM. Here we are getting two sets, Stephen's Green (or wherever) to DCU, then Metro Park to north of airport. I dont see, in overall scheme of things, extra cost of tunnelling to be huge when offset by saving cost of entry and extraction pits with cost of stilt structure.

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by Gobdaw

Paul, we're talking several miles of "elevated section". What has been suggested by RPA is a ballymun solution not acceptable elsewhere in Dublin. It will march down the centre of Ballymun Road like a Berlin Wall. It will be no addition to the regeneration being carried out by Dublin City Co. It will look what it is, the cheap solution for a percieved cheap part of the city.

Right, as my name is the first word in that post, I am assuming it was directed at me.

1. I already stated I am not familiar with the area. I have no idea how long it will be. Instead of saying "Down with that sort of thing", try suggesting ways to improve it.

2. I never said it wasn't good enough for Dublin, I would be quite happy to see it all elevated. Do not put words in my mouth.

3. You know, for definite, that a rail line will not help regeneration? Please explain how. I do know other cities manage fine with elevated rails. Dublin can too.

4. As Mark said, look at Dundrum.

[al2637]

Again, I'm not too familiar with the area, but would it not be possible to run it at ground level and have the roads cross it at grade rather than the other way around? or maybe some combination of both? Given that it's not heavy rail, will the metro be able to deal with steeper gradients than the DART?

I guess it all depends on the overall design. A large impressive suspension bridge would probably work quite well, whereas a long concrete embankment would be a disaster.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Since I lived there for 29 years I guess I'm familiar with the area.

The elevated section would afaik run from what is now Ballymun Senior Comprehensive School up to the new hotel at Santry(?) Cross. The reason why is because whilst the old Ballymun road was a dual carraigeway all the way from Mobhi road to the M50, it is now a DC to the Library, then a main street (albeit a bit wide) and then a DC again. I can only really see the need for an elevated section alone the main street.

The new Civic Offices and the new main plaza are also on the main street, it wouldnt be feasable to have it between the road, also there are several new intersections and about four pedestrian crossings. If it is the be stilts i dont see it being for any more than that section, and if it is for that section only, you can easily have it at first floor level, bear in mind that the buildings alone the main street are pretty big as it is, its not as if it'll be going past normal houses.

Regarding the height of the M50 embankment, it is a fair height. But, it is a very long way away from Ballymun and indeed the DC from Santry Cross to the M50 intersection is a quite easy gradient, albeit a long one. Should the Metro simply go up the median it will be at the height of the overbridges when it gets to the M50. You then have to consider if you are going to copy the LUAS red cow idea or have it hoofed over the intersection itself?

You have another, slightly easier idea as well. You coulfd go back into the ground at Santry Cross. Plenty of time to clear under the M50 and hear towards the airport and have your stop as well.

[Gobdaw]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Regarding the height of the M50 embankment, it is a fair height. But, it is a very long way away from Ballymun and indeed the DC from Santry Cross to the M50 intersection is a quite easy gradient, albeit a long one. Should the Metro simply go up the median it will be at the height of the overbridges when it gets to the M50.

Would you like to give a flyer at the enbankment height? What do you mean by DC? I'm not familar with that.

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

You then have to consider if you are going to copy the LUAS red cow idea or have it hoofed over the intersection itself?

You have another, slightly easier idea as well. You coulfd go back into the ground at Santry Cross. Plenty of time to clear under the M50 and hear towards the airport and have your stop as well.

I prefer the last suggestion to having a second Mad Cow !

I still cann't see the advantage in breaking the continuety of tunnelling for Ballymun Centre, with all the costs in relocating the TBM such a short distance