What needs to happen to facilitate Kildare-Grand Canal Dock services?

[Kilocharlie]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

If you go to Bray from Pearse and tag on and off it will use the epurse.

If you get on at Pearse and don't tag off it'll assume you're using the point to point ticket.

Suppose you get tag on at Bray, change at GCD and don't tag off at your p2p station?

[Jamie2k9]

All we need now is a timetable...

Heuston works not scheduled to finish until 5 November, hard to see anything before that and at that they should wait until 11 December to introduce a new schedule and bring the mess of producing a timetable whenever you feel like to an end.

People lived without PPT for years a few more weeks won't do any harm.

Kilocharlie do you plan to use the service, looking at an 60-65 minutes Kildare-GCD based on a test 40 minute schedule put into JP from Adamtwon-GCD with a 40 minute time. That is if it goes to Kildare.

[Mark Gleeson]

Heuston side works have no impact as full service to Hazelhatch is possible on all days of work, should in theory be full to Newbridge.

October was the commitment

Driver training was held up until the final track layout in Grand Canal Dock, Heuston Connolly is already covered as a normal route for anyone who has entered the driving grade in the last decade

[Jamie2k9]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Heuston side works have no impact as full service to Hazelhatch is possible on all days of work, should in theory be full to Newbridge.

October was the commitment

Driver training was held up until the final track layout in Grand Canal Dock, Heuston Connolly is already covered as a normal route for anyone who has entered the driving grade in the last decade

Perhaps freeing up stock could be problematic at times, Mark IV back on Cork not going help a lot.

[Kilocharlie]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Kilocharlie do you plan to use the service, looking at an 60-65 minutes Kildare-GCD based on a test 40 minute schedule put into JP from Adamtwon-GCD with a 40 minute time. That is if it goes to Kildare.

Yes if Kildare is served at least at peak hours. But I'd need to know early Nov for Annual Taxsaver renewal. No good if it terminates at Newbridge.

[grainne whale]

Originally Posted by Kilocharlie

Yes if Kildare is served at least at peak hours. But I'd need to know early Nov for Annual Taxsaver renewal. No good if it terminates at Newbridge.

Yes I have more or less the same problem. I work on Wood Quay, and commute to and from Hazelhatch, I also use the feeder bus to / from Celbridge. Trains serving Connolly / Grand Canal Dock are no use to me. I would like to see a provisional timetable published before I renew my Annual Taxsaver Rail - this date is about mid October in my workplace. Otherwise I shall have to travel by Dublin Bus. To be honest I have been travelling to my workplace since 1997 by train as I prefer that mode of transport - I also enjoy the walk to my office to / from Heuston each day.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Kilocharlie

Suppose you get tag on at Bray, change at GCD and don't tag off at your p2p station?

Then you will be charged the maximum short hop zone fare.

You would have to tag off at Pearse.

It's your responsibility to have a valid ticket.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

Then you will be charged the maximum short hop zone fare.

You would have to tag off at Pearse.

It's your responsibility to have a valid ticket.

While this discussion is somewhat academic for most, I suspect that a court might take the view that a valid leap card with adequate credit and a valid point to point ticket is indeed a valid ticket. Surely the system should simply take the maximum leap fare or more intelligently the fare to the point where the point to point ticket becomes valid.

It s not always the customer's fault if a system is poorly designed and easily confused. I have both a leap card and a separarate Irish Rail smart card and frankly wouldn't trust the current setup to properly distinguish between the two and would never put value on the Irish Rail smart card even if it allowed me !

[James Howard]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

It s not always the customer's fault if a system is poorly designed and easily confused.

Most successful businesses adopt a mantra of "The customer is always right". If the customer is making mistakes due to over-complex systems, the systems should be simplified. It is absurd to have a system that requires that the passenger get off the train to validate their ticket in Pearse.

Leap is just a ludicrously complicated mess in terms of managing tickets. It is crazy that you need to be able to keep up to six active tickets on your card. The whole model needs to be scrapped and replaced with a proper zonal system.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

While this discussion is somewhat academic for most, I suspect that a court might take the view that a valid leap card with adequate credit and a valid point to point ticket is indeed a valid ticket. Surely the system should simply take the maximum leap fare or more intelligently the fare to the point where the point to point ticket becomes valid.

It s not always the customer's fault if a system is poorly designed and easily confused. I have both a leap card and a separarate Irish Rail smart card and frankly wouldn't trust the current setup to properly distinguish between the two and would never put value on the Irish Rail smart card even if it allowed me !

Well I was just pointing out what the customer *should* do to be charged the correct fare.

[James Shields]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

Then you will be charged the maximum short hop zone fare.

You would have to tag off at Pearse.

If I get the 16:50 from Bray to Drogheda, how would I tag off at Pearse? Is the system not smart enough to recognise when I tag off at Drogheda and charge me only for the part my P2P ticket doesn't cover?

James

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by James Shields

If I get the 16:50 from Bray to Drogheda, how would I tag off at Pearse? Is the system not smart enough to recognise when I tag off at Drogheda and charge me only for the part my P2P ticket doesn't cover?

James

Well you'll be charged the maximum short hop fare and your P2P ticket will cover the rest I would imagine.

It can't know where you got off using the epurse - it needs to tag off.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

Well you'll be charged the maximum short hop fare and your P2P ticket will cover the rest I would imagine.

It can't know where you got off using the epurse - it needs to tag off.

It could use the onboard info to make a logical deduction !

[James Shields]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

It can't know where you got off using the epurse - it needs to tag off.

It knows I tagged off in Drogheda. It knows I tagged on in Bray. It should also know that the only way I could get to Drogheda is on the Pearse-Drogheda route covered by my P2P card, and only charge for the part that's not covered (Bray-Lansdowne Road in my case).

If there are direct trains, and a single ticket covers the journey, I should not be expected to tag out and in mid way.

This effectively means I can't use direct trains from south of Lansdowne, since I would need to get off in Pearse to tag off and on. I suppose if you picked your seat carefully and didn't mind standing from Pearse on, you might be able to hop off, tag out and in, and hop on again.

What happens in the other direction, if I tag on in Drogheda and tag off in Bray?

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by James Shields

It knows I tagged off in Drogheda. It knows I tagged on in Bray. It should also know that the only way I could get to Drogheda is on the Pearse-Drogheda route covered by my P2P card, and only charge for the part that's not covered (Bray-Lansdowne Road in my case).

If there are direct trains, and a single ticket covers the journey, I should not be expected to tag out and in mid way.

This effectively means I can't use direct trains from south of Lansdowne, since I would need to get off in Pearse to tag off and on. I suppose if you picked your seat carefully and didn't mind standing from Pearse on, you might be able to hop off, tag out and in, and hop on again.

What happens in the other direction, if I tag on in Drogheda and tag off in Bray?

The problem is that the purse and the ticket are two separate products - the card is not that smart - you either use one or the other but not both at the same time.

The fundamental issue is that the epurse is only valid within the Short Hop zone - until that changes you have to tag on/off within the short hop zone for the appropriate fare to be deducted. Whether that will change is down to the NTA.

If you didn't want to tag off the epurse and tag on the ticket, you would either have to grin and bear it and pay the higher LEAP fare from the epurse or buy a Bray-Pearse ticket in Bray from a ticket machine.

[James Shields]

For an experiment (and because I needed to go there), I took a DART from Grand Canal Dock to Howth.

I tagged on as normal, but when I tagged off in Howth if didn't consider I'd tagged on, so charged me the maximum fare of €4.90. That's not very smart!

I called Leap Card helpline and explained what had happened and they checked the correct fare for the part my P2P doesn't cover, Howth Junction to Howth (€1.73), and issued a refund for the difference, so it all worked out fine, but why can't the system be smart enough to do this automatically?

Is there a way to tell it I'm tagging on the PAYG rather than the P2P?

James