New FSO service Waterford - Dublin

[Traincustomer]

An additional journey, operating on Fridays & Saturdays only, has been introduced at 16.00hrs ex Waterford arriving Heuston 17.50hrs.

Intermediate stations served are Carlow, Athy and Kildare. Timings are shown in the Journey Planner and on the in station poster.

[Jamie2k9]

An additional journey, operating on Fridays & Saturdays only, has been introduced at 16.00hrs ex Waterford arriving Heuston 17.50hrs.

Intermediate stations served are Carlow, Athy and Kildare. Timings are shown in the Journey Planner and on the in station poster.

Spotted this the other day but didn't post because its only in the JP until early October. Its being operated by 3 coaches which operate part of the 13.15 ex Heuston and return empty at 15.35 to operate another evening service.

I asked IE twice since the 2013 why they don't operate it as a passenger service especially as the 16.50 service was cancelled and carried good numbers on Fridays and Saturdays. Needless to say that would be a terrible idea!

Only reason I can see them operating this 16.00 service is because the 14.50 was changed from 6 to 3 coaches to allow the 13.05 go form 3 to 6 in July and there has being some issues on the 14.50 since.

[Traincustomer]

Interesting - thanks for the background as I was intrigued as to how the service came about. There may be scope for other empty stock movements on the network to operate in service (or in service for part of the journey). A can do policy of constant improvement is the way forward.

[dowlingm]

Traincustomer- you may be unfamiliar with the IE stages of timetable grief where:

RUI suggest turning a positioning service into revenue
IE do nowt
RUI go on Matt Cooper or similar to talk about it
The Information Minister or a minion rubbishes the idea
A suspiciously short time later, a service is inserted into the revenue timetable...

[Jamie2k9]

Interesting - thanks for the background as I was intrigued as to how the service came about. There may be scope for other empty stock movements on the network to operate in service (or in service for part of the journey). A can do policy of constant improvement is the way forward.

There isn't really any others at user friendly times and on busy days operating so not much scope. Operationally there is advantages of not having them as passenger services but as this service must be back in Dublin to operate it makes sense.

[Mark Gleeson]

There still are several regular empty stock movements, regardless of the time of day its a free item basically and any revenue is extra

[Traincustomer]

I'm not sure whether the positioning journey to Carlow to commence the 06.30 Carlow - Heuston commuter (Mon-Fri) commences at Portlaoise or at Heuston. Either way consideration could be given to operating it in service.

[Jamie2k9]

There still are several regular empty stock movements, regardless of the time of day its a free item basically and any revenue is extra

I'm not sure whether the positioning journey to Carlow to commence the 06.30 Carlow - Heuston commuter (Mon-Fri) commences at Portlaoise or at Heuston. Either way consideration could be given to operating it in service.

There is a balance to be stuck. Using the Carlow example as above opening that to passenger service wouldn't justify the costs as Heuston station would not be open and it runs to a tight timetable so it would be non stop and stations along the route wouldn't be open either.

I fail to see the general justification for IE running the 16.00 on Saturdays regularly. They is no need to operate it and a quick roster change would save the 110 mile journey. Really simple and for all the brains in charge they should really of copped on to where the change could happen to save the cost of running it. I shouldn't have to point the exact change out! The capacity charge earlier in July are really only because the 13.05 takes large group booking twice a week (one being a Saturday) and it should be ending in the next few weeks and as the summer is coming to an end numbers will fall off slightly anyway.

[ACustomer]

Jamie2k9: That's a bit negative! There is a large gap between the 1450 and the 1825 ex Waterford, and a fast 1600 service fills it nicely. If you provide good convenient services people will use them. My only gripe is that they don't do it 6 days a week. It takes time to build up custom, and it needs a bit of encouragement.

It not often I praise Irish Rail.

[Jamie2k9]

Jamie2k9: That's a bit negative! There is a large gap between the 1450 and the 1825 ex Waterford, and a fast 1600 service fills it nicely. If you provide good convenient services people will use them. My only gripe is that they don't do it 6 days a week. It takes time to build up custom, and it needs a bit of encouragement.

It not often I praise Irish Rail.

It is good news and if there was demand for it all week it would operate. Remember the 16.50 wouldn't of being scrapped. It does very little for the gap as Carlow would carry the highest numbers and its the second departure within 40 minutes. Still a 2.5 hour gap.

If Limerick J could take a 4 coach then the 13.15 would most likely being a 4 coach on Saturday and on Fridays as quieter times of the year which is why IE only operate it as 3/6 as 4 coach unit has to be moved to the sidings after arrival in Limerick J.

With IE's financial position costs matter and running a empty Saturday service for the last 2 years is not acceptable when there is no need. Until January of this year the 17.35 ex Heuston was operated by a 3 coach unit and as a result of this the 07.10 on Monday had major problems for 3+ years. However since January they increased it to a 6 coach set to allow full capacity for the 07.10 on Monday. Now why don't they leave the spare 3 coaches from the 13.15 in Waterford and join the 3 coach from the 17.35 up for the 07.10 on Monday. Instead they are running 2 sets empty. Passenger numbers have not suddenly jumped by 200 on the 17.35 and even so they could probably get away with doing the same on the 16.40 either.

Its crazy decisions like this that is costing them big time.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

It is good news and if there was demand for it all week it would operate. Remember the 16.50 wouldn't of being scrapped. It does very little for the gap as Carlow would carry the highest numbers and its the second departure within 40 minutes. Still a 2.5 hour gap.

If Limerick J could take a 4 coach then the 13.15 would most likely being a 4 coach on Saturday and on Fridays as quieter times of the year which is why IE only operate it as 3/6 as 4 coach unit has to be moved to the sidings after arrival in Limerick J.

With IE's financial position costs matter and running a empty Saturday service for the last 2 years is not acceptable when there is no need. Until January of this year the 17.35 ex Heuston was operated by a 3 coach unit and as a result of this the 07.10 on Monday had major problems for 3+ years. However since January they increased it to a 6 coach set to allow full capacity for the 07.10 on Monday. Now why don't they leave the spare 3 coaches from the 13.15 in Waterford and join the 3 coach from the 17.35 up for the 07.10 on Monday. Instead they are running 2 sets empty. Passenger numbers have not suddenly jumped by 200 on the 17.35 and even so they could probably get away with doing the same on the 16.40 either.

Its crazy decisions like this that is costing them big time.

I would assume that the set is used on another service out of Heuston after 18:00 so perhaps it is not that crazy.

This particular service on Fridays and Saturdays of course should have been operated in service long before this.

[Jamie2k9]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

I would assume that the set is used on another service out of Heuston after 18:00 so perhaps it is not that crazy.

This particular service on Fridays and Saturdays of course should have been operated in service long before this.

Fridays it must operate but they could easily have the spare 3 coaches restored for the 5.35 to make up for the service on Saturday evening so it is just wasting money.

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/new-aft...days-saturdays

New afternoon service from Waterford to Dublin Heuston on Fridays & Saturdays

17 September 2014

An extra service will depart Waterford at 16:00hrs on Fridays & Saturdays only.

Iarnród Éireann has introduced an extra afternoon service from Waterford to Heuston on Fridays and Saturdays. The extra service will depart Waterford at 16:00hrs and arrive at Heuston at 17:50hrs on Fridays & Saturdays only.

This service has been introduced as a result of feedback from customers, particularly students attending Waterford and Carlow Institutes of Technology and those who may wish to travel to Dublin or Carlow for events at weekends. This change to the timetable has been approved by the National Transport Authority.

This service along with all regular services can be viewed through the journey planner above.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Fridays it must operate but they could easily have the spare 3 coaches restored for the 5.35 to make up for the service on Saturday evening so it is just wasting money.

The second set on the 13:15 may have to go for scheduled maintenance after it completes the round trip to/from Waterford, which would mean that leaving it in Waterford may not be an option.

Unless you have an in-depth knowledge of the set rosters, you (nor I) can't make that judgement.

[Jamie2k9]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

The second set on the 13:15 may have to go for scheduled maintenance after it completes the round trip to/from Waterford, which would mean that leaving it in Waterford may not be an option.

Unless you have an in-depth knowledge of the set rosters, you (nor I) can't make that judgement.

Now we are just making excuses, when it comes to money anything can change. I hope it does well especially on Saturdays so it will always operate but if its a case of low usage on Saturday and costs involved then it should not be running either empty or in service when there is no need. Fares have gone up a lot on the route this year and the least I expect is cost efficiency where possible.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Now we are just making excuses, when it comes to money anything can change. I hope it does well especially on Saturdays so it will always operate but if its a case of low usage on Saturday and costs involved then it should not be running either empty or in service when there is no need. Fares have gone up a lot on the route this year and the least I expect is cost efficiency where possible.

Last time I checked, trains having their exams when they're suppose to is not an optional extra.

It could well be the case that the set has to go to Portlaoise for an exam, while the set on the 17:35 isn't available.

That is perfectly possible without it being an "excuse".

[dowlingm]

Great to see concern for Waterford students. Who knows, we might see Sunday service on the Limerick Junction line yet

[Jamie2k9]

Last time I checked, trains having their exams when they're suppose to is not an optional extra.

It could well be the case that the set has to go to Portlaoise for an exam, while the set on the 17:35 isn't available.

That is perfectly possible without it being an "excuse".

I don't want to keep going on about it but:

Set rosters are changed very regularly. You often see changes every 2 months to match supply and demand. You should see some changes in the next few weeks to cater for student traffic. Everything can be done if people want it to be done. Its irrelevant now anyway so hopefully the service delivers on Saturdays particularly.

My job involves maintenance and its a much larger company than Irish Rail and efficiency is at the heart of it. If they were running IE it would be profitable and deliver a service at the same time.

[James Howard]

This chestnut of regular maintenance for the 22Ks seems to come up a lot in terms of justifying some of the crazier-looking rostering decisions like 29Ks to Sligo or 22Ks to M3 Parkway. How often do these units need servicing?

If the need for serving is such a problem, it would seem to be a bit silly to have the maintenance located so far out of the way of the regular routes of so many of the trains so that they have to be shuttled 50 or 60k from a terminus in order to receive regular maintenance.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by James Howard

This chestnut of regular maintenance for the 22Ks seems to come up a lot in terms of justifying some of the crazier-looking rostering decisions like 29Ks to Sligo or 22Ks to M3 Parkway. How often do these units need servicing?

If the need for serving is such a problem, it would seem to be a bit silly to have the maintenance located so far out of the way of the regular routes of so many of the trains so that they have to be shuttled 50 or 60k from a terminus in order to receive regular maintenance.

As I understand it they have to visit the depot in Drogheda or Portlaoise every 48 hours for basic servicing (excluding fuelling and toilet discharge which can happen at terminal stations).

Totally agree about the locations of maintenance facilities. While on the Heuston side it is covered (in the main) by the hourly Heuston/Portlaoise services, the facility was located in Portlaoise for purely political reasons.

Moving ICR maintenance from Connolly to Drogheda was utter madness as it means trains are unavailable for roughly 1.5 hours more than necessary due to having to travel to/from Drogheda. Cost savings from sharing resources (one depot) to me have to be offset by the unnecessary additional downtime that causes, and the reduction in rostering flexibility.