Metro North Route - Page 2

weehamster · 20-10-2006, 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Fitzgricer

I am in the US at the moment working and I checked the UTV news site on the off chance and lo and behold Dublin is to get a brilliant metro north with an ace, integrated route route.

However, I think UTV has posted a world exclusive preview of the rolling stock to be used. Do you think it'll be carrying beet as well as commuters?

http://u.tv/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=77410&pt=n

What a beauty.

Though to be honest, the tram pictures on the RPA Metro North Map arent good looking either.

Mark · 21-10-2006, 11:18

They are just citadis luas pics!

James Shields · 21-10-2006, 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

They are just citadis luas pics!

I don't think they're Luas pics. I would expect the RPA have a 3D model of a possible Metro vehicle (though the exact vehicle won't be known until after the tender process), which is presumably based on Luas.

weehamster · 22-10-2006, 17:34

If you look carefull at picture 3 you can see Ballymun flats in the background. Now this could be from the aule Dundrum to Sillogue Luas line but I doubt it.
Now RPA were quoted saying that the metro tram will look very similar to the Luas tram.

Mark · 23-10-2006, 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostcarpark

I don't think they're Luas pics. I would expect the RPA have a 3D model of a possible Metro vehicle (though the exact vehicle won't be known until after the tender process), which is presumably based on Luas.

Yeah they are, fairly obvious I thought.

tomf · 23-10-2006, 12:14

Any planned new rail system should be routed with multiple numbers of points of interchange with existing public transport nodes, in particular those that coincide with high capacity suburban and regional/national transport nodes.

The new route chosen for Metro North is welcome to the extent that departs from the original publicised route and will now coincide with Drumcondra station serving the Maynooth suburban line (planned Greystones-Maynooth DART)

As previously publicised, the fact that it will also concide with the new interconnector at St. Stephens Green linking with the Kildare suburban line (planned Balbriggan-Hazelhatch Dart) and will have direct links with both Red and Green Luas is welcome but nothing more than one would expect from a planned network.

It is my view however that the route should interchange directly with the DART at Tara Street DART Station which is the busiest suburban rail station in Dublin.

Given that a direct single station interchange appears to be off the agenda, a second best approach could be simply achieved by routing an underground pedestrian tunnel between the new 'landmark' underground station' at O' Connell Bridge to an area within the curtilage of Tara Street Station allowing interchange in relative comfort and with minimal 'perceived' distance between the points of interchange. This is the approach that appears to have been adopted with the pedestrian tunnel to the Luas at Abbey Street.

A clearly delineated foot passage between O'Connell Bridge station and Tara Street Dart would make interchange more comfortable for Irish passengers and international visitors and further incentivise public transport over private.

Rail travel experience in London, New York, Munich, Frankfort, Berlin, Toronto, Montreal is made simple by ease of interchange between international/suburban/metro/underground/tram with frequent direct foot passages between routes even where there are relatively significant distances between them (between 400 and 600m). The perception is that the lines are relatively close as you are not subjected to 'surfacing' amongst shoppers etc. If opportunities for interchange are not made easy and comfort within stations is not maximised, the optimisation of passenger numbers and full benefits of our investment will not be achieved.

Where maximum distances between Metro and rail or Metro and DART interchanges are of the order of maximum 3/400m by foot and are clearly delineated by underground tunnel from within DART/Rail/Metro/Luas stations highest passenger usage between services will be achieved.

Donal Quinn · 23-10-2006, 13:40

i knew this map would come in handy!

i take your points about integration of public transport but i fail to see the benefit in your specific proposal.

tara is in between pearse and connolly on the DART 2 line - given that there is already a "barrier-free" (we are told) interchange with the metro (aka orange luas) and the DART 2 at drumcondra. surely there is no need for a direct link between O'Connell bridge and Tara st which is not itself an interchange station although the stations before and after it are...

tomf · 23-10-2006, 14:32

Whilst there will be an interchange between the Metro and Dart 1 at St. Stephens Green and Metro and Dart 2 at Drumcondra I would firstly argue that the more opportunities there are for customer friendly ease of transfer at interchange points between the various rail options (and the other travel modes) the better. When the whole network is complete it is not 'essential' that these 2 stations are linked but the more choices people have the better. If its not made easy people won't do it.

Secondly, it looks likely that the government (and also opposition parties) have invested sufficient energy, enthusiasm and commitment into this project that it is unlikely to be reversed, with the metro section to the airport completed at a very minimum. However, despite its obvious and clear merits, the future of the interconnector is less certain and the minister has given little away in terms of guaranteeing its delivery. There is a planned minimum timelag of 3 years between completing the Metro and the electrification of the suburban lines and completion of the interconnector. The likelihood is that there will be an even greater timelag in its delivery and therefore no interchange between Metro and the existing Dart network (Malahide/Howth to Bray/Greystones) for a minimum of 5+ years.

A small investment, during Metro construction phase, constructing an underground foot passage between the 'landmark' underground city Metro station and the busiest Dart station on the network would make obvious sense and assist customers during the interm period and make ease of transfer easier. It would obviously be benificial in the longer term also. It could hardly be negative.

Short terms and simple solutions, similar to the temporary Docklands station (or the reopening of the Phoenix Park tunnel to passenger traffic!), make sense. If during the intervening period there are poor connections between Metro and Dart. That would be short sighted.

2Funki4Wheelz · 23-10-2006, 15:30

Excellent news, especially for a proper Airport system and for Swords where I used to live (which is huuuge now). We were getting the DART 'soon', when I was kid (mid-late eighties). Maybe this time something really will happen.

markpb · 24-10-2006, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

# Santry Demesne
Station to serve development here. However development is also taking place on the opposite side of the link road and the RPA envisage a new pedestrian bridge to link metro station with it.

Do you know where this stop is, exactly? Santry Demense is a pretty big place :-) I'd hope it would be somewhere around Swords Road / Coolock Lane junction so it would connect with the orbital 17A but I'm guessing it's somewhere further north around Crown Plaza?

Derek Wheeler · 25-10-2006, 00:00

Its effectively in Ballymun.

Santry Demense runs from the old N1 near Santry stadium (Crown Plaza) back towards Ballymun. The Metro station will be located alongside the link road from Ballymun to the M50 junction.(The road that runs from Collins Avenue through Ballymun and towards the M50.) At the moment its a relative no-mans land, but apparently development is planned.

Colm Donoghue · 25-10-2006, 13:05

Is the "Ballymun" stop then to be south of where the old roundabout was, the santry demesne then north of Santry avenue( and the new and improved higher than the old highrise ballymun tower) in the vicinity of where ikea was planned to go and metropark to be north of the m50? with a degree of vagueness about where exactly these will go?

Is "link road from Ballymun to the M50 junction" not the Ballymun road really? I would have always considered it to be so from the m50 to the met office.

markpb · 25-10-2006, 14:58

Is there any chance the metro north trains will be driverless? I'm just back from Paris and noticed that the (relatively) new line 14 operates this way. The platforms have platform edge automatic doors, similar to the jubilee line in London and the train is completely staff free.

Derek Wheeler · 25-10-2006, 16:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by colmd

Is the "Ballymun" stop then to be south of where the old roundabout was, the santry demesne then north of Santry avenue( and the new and improved higher than the old highrise ballymun tower) in the vicinity of where ikea was planned to go and metropark to be north of the m50? with a degree of vagueness about where exactly these will go?

Exactly.

janda · 25-10-2006, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by markpb

Do you know where this stop is, exactly? Santry Demense is a pretty big place :-) I'd hope it would be somewhere around Swords Road / Coolock Lane junction so it would connect with the orbital 17A but I'm guessing it's somewhere further north around Crown Plaza?

I live in Northwood at the moment so I have an interest (but I suspect i won't be living here by the time the metro opens

)

From what I read they intend going up the east side of Ballymun Road, so they may have an alignment along the old road (directly outside the entrance to Northwood)- it may minimise traffic disruption.

markpb · 25-10-2006, 21:01

The RPA have a decent looking map of the proposed station sites.

Colm Donoghue · 26-10-2006, 08:40

I guess this is really too late to add any comment, but the Griffith avenue station should really be between Grifith ave. and Homefarm road to maximize it's catchement. having it where it is will only have a catchment on one side. not too many people from the farm gonna be getting the metro...

Mark · 26-10-2006, 08:55

Mark Gleeson · 26-10-2006, 08:56

The Griffith Rd stop is built on or adjacent to a plot of land owned by DCU which is being developed into a second campus

Given the route of the tunnel its about the only place it could go

If you draw the 10 minute walking circle around the stops you should find they overlap

Navan Junction · 18-11-2006, 08:57

RPA to rethink Ballymun section of Metro North
Tim O'Brien, Irish Times, 18.11.2006

The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) is to re-examine its preferred options for routing Dublin's Metro North through Ballymun.

The 17km (10.6-mile) metro is set to take passengers underground from St Stephen's Green to Dublin City University (DCU) where it will rise to street level, and pass along the central median on Ballymun Road and Ballymun Main Street.

When the route was announced last month, the RPA said it was considering three options for the Ballymun section. These included an on-street design, an elevated design and putting the line in a trench along the middle of the road.

However, following opposition from locals, The Irish Timesunderstands the RPA has agreed to consider scrapping all three options to continue the metro underground until it has passed Ballymun and possibly the M50.

Labour transport spokeswoman Róisín Shortall revealed senior RPA executives met with local councillors, TDs and executives of Ballymun regeneration this week to work out a solution.

Ms Shortall said there were serious difficulties with all of the original RPA options. In relation to the on-street design, the route would traverse three major intersections in the area of Main Street. " . . . And you cannot have a high-speed train crossing three junctions at the lights," she said.

In relation to the elevated proposal, Ms Shortall said it was impractical to put the train "looking in the first-floor windows of homes" while issues would arise in relation to the space under the line which could give rise to anti-social behaviour.

In relation to the trench proposal, she said there were safety issues for pedestrians and trains. The RPA is to revert to the groups on Tuesday with further proposals.

According to Ms Shortall, a solution which does not involve any of the original three put forward by the RPA is a must if the project is to be successful. "You simply can't spend €3 billion on a high-speed train and then ruin its effectiveness by asking it to stop three times in a short section for junctions with road traffic."

Similarly, she said, it was not realistic to expect people in Ballymun to put up with an elevated or trench section when it could be put underground elsewhere along the route. Metro North is expected to complete its journey from St Stephen's Green to Dublin airport in 17 minutes, arriving at Swords in 26 minutes.

22-10-2006, 17:34	#24
weehamster Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cathair Bhaile Átha Cliath Posts: 199	If you look carefull at picture 3 you can see Ballymun flats in the background. Now this could be from the aule Dundrum to Sillogue Luas line but I doubt it. Now RPA were quoted saying that the metro tram will look very similar to the Luas tram. __________________ R.I.P. T21 Eradicate Fianna Fáil (Totally)

23-10-2006, 12:14	#26
tomf New to the board Join Date: May 2006 Location: wicklow Posts: 7	Metro and Dart interchange Any planned new rail system should be routed with multiple numbers of points of interchange with existing public transport nodes, in particular those that coincide with high capacity suburban and regional/national transport nodes. The new route chosen for Metro North is welcome to the extent that departs from the original publicised route and will now coincide with Drumcondra station serving the Maynooth suburban line (planned Greystones-Maynooth DART) As previously publicised, the fact that it will also concide with the new interconnector at St. Stephens Green linking with the Kildare suburban line (planned Balbriggan-Hazelhatch Dart) and will have direct links with both Red and Green Luas is welcome but nothing more than one would expect from a planned network. It is my view however that the route should interchange directly with the DART at Tara Street DART Station which is the busiest suburban rail station in Dublin. Given that a direct single station interchange appears to be off the agenda, a second best approach could be simply achieved by routing an underground pedestrian tunnel between the new 'landmark' underground station' at O' Connell Bridge to an area within the curtilage of Tara Street Station allowing interchange in relative comfort and with minimal 'perceived' distance between the points of interchange. This is the approach that appears to have been adopted with the pedestrian tunnel to the Luas at Abbey Street. A clearly delineated foot passage between O'Connell Bridge station and Tara Street Dart would make interchange more comfortable for Irish passengers and international visitors and further incentivise public transport over private. Rail travel experience in London, New York, Munich, Frankfort, Berlin, Toronto, Montreal is made simple by ease of interchange between international/suburban/metro/underground/tram with frequent direct foot passages between routes even where there are relatively significant distances between them (between 400 and 600m). The perception is that the lines are relatively close as you are not subjected to 'surfacing' amongst shoppers etc. If opportunities for interchange are not made easy and comfort within stations is not maximised, the optimisation of passenger numbers and full benefits of our investment will not be achieved. Where maximum distances between Metro and rail or Metro and DART interchanges are of the order of maximum 3/400m by foot and are clearly delineated by underground tunnel from within DART/Rail/Metro/Luas stations highest passenger usage between services will be achieved.

23-10-2006, 13:40	#27
Donal Quinn Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 267	i knew this map would come in handy! i take your points about integration of public transport but i fail to see the benefit in your specific proposal. tara is in between pearse and connolly on the DART 2 line - given that there is already a "barrier-free" (we are told) interchange with the metro (aka orange luas) and the DART 2 at drumcondra. surely there is no need for a direct link between O'Connell bridge and Tara st which is not itself an interchange station although the stations before and after it are... Last edited by Donal Quinn : 23-10-2006 at 13:49.

23-10-2006, 15:30	#29
2Funki4Wheelz Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Portarlington Posts: 397	Excellent news, especially for a proper Airport system and for Swords where I used to live (which is huuuge now). We were getting the DART 'soon', when I was kid (mid-late eighties). Maybe this time something really will happen. __________________ Customer Service costs nothing...

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21-10-2006, 11:18	#22
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern line Posts: 1,311	They are just citadis luas pics!

23-10-2006, 14:32	#28
tomf New to the board Join Date: May 2006 Location: wicklow Posts: 7	Whilst there will be an interchange between the Metro and Dart 1 at St. Stephens Green and Metro and Dart 2 at Drumcondra I would firstly argue that the more opportunities there are for customer friendly ease of transfer at interchange points between the various rail options (and the other travel modes) the better. When the whole network is complete it is not 'essential' that these 2 stations are linked but the more choices people have the better. If its not made easy people won't do it. Secondly, it looks likely that the government (and also opposition parties) have invested sufficient energy, enthusiasm and commitment into this project that it is unlikely to be reversed, with the metro section to the airport completed at a very minimum. However, despite its obvious and clear merits, the future of the interconnector is less certain and the minister has given little away in terms of guaranteeing its delivery. There is a planned minimum timelag of 3 years between completing the Metro and the electrification of the suburban lines and completion of the interconnector. The likelihood is that there will be an even greater timelag in its delivery and therefore no interchange between Metro and the existing Dart network (Malahide/Howth to Bray/Greystones) for a minimum of 5+ years. A small investment, during Metro construction phase, constructing an underground foot passage between the 'landmark' underground city Metro station and the busiest Dart station on the network would make obvious sense and assist customers during the interm period and make ease of transfer easier. It would obviously be benificial in the longer term also. It could hardly be negative. Short terms and simple solutions, similar to the temporary Docklands station (or the reopening of the Phoenix Park tunnel to passenger traffic!), make sense. If during the intervening period there are poor connections between Metro and Dart. That would be short sighted.

25-10-2006, 00:00	#31
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	Its effectively in Ballymun. Santry Demense runs from the old N1 near Santry stadium (Crown Plaza) back towards Ballymun. The Metro station will be located alongside the link road from Ballymun to the M50 junction.(The road that runs from Collins Avenue through Ballymun and towards the M50.) At the moment its a relative no-mans land, but apparently development is planned.

25-10-2006, 13:05	#32
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	Is the "Ballymun" stop then to be south of where the old roundabout was, the santry demesne then north of Santry avenue( and the new and improved higher than the old highrise ballymun tower) in the vicinity of where ikea was planned to go and metropark to be north of the m50? with a degree of vagueness about where exactly these will go? Is "link road from Ballymun to the M50 junction" not the Ballymun road really? I would have always considered it to be so from the m50 to the met office.

25-10-2006, 14:58	#33
markpb Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 541	Is there any chance the metro north trains will be driverless? I'm just back from Paris and noticed that the (relatively) new line 14 operates this way. The platforms have platform edge automatic doors, similar to the jubilee line in London and the train is completely staff free.

25-10-2006, 21:01	#36
markpb Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 541	The RPA have a decent looking map of the proposed station sites.

26-10-2006, 08:40	#37
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	I guess this is really too late to add any comment, but the Griffith avenue station should really be between Grifith ave. and Homefarm road to maximize it's catchement. having it where it is will only have a catchment on one side. not too many people from the farm gonna be getting the metro...

26-10-2006, 08:55	#38
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern line Posts: 1,311

26-10-2006, 08:56	#39
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The Griffith Rd stop is built on or adjacent to a plot of land owned by DCU which is being developed into a second campus Given the route of the tunnel its about the only place it could go If you draw the 10 minute walking circle around the stops you should find they overlap

18-11-2006, 08:57	#40
Navan Junction Really Regular Poster Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Navan Posts: 305	RPA to rethink Ballymun section of Metro North Tim O'Brien, Irish Times, 18.11.2006 The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) is to re-examine its preferred options for routing Dublin's Metro North through Ballymun. The 17km (10.6-mile) metro is set to take passengers underground from St Stephen's Green to Dublin City University (DCU) where it will rise to street level, and pass along the central median on Ballymun Road and Ballymun Main Street. When the route was announced last month, the RPA said it was considering three options for the Ballymun section. These included an on-street design, an elevated design and putting the line in a trench along the middle of the road. However, following opposition from locals, The Irish Timesunderstands the RPA has agreed to consider scrapping all three options to continue the metro underground until it has passed Ballymun and possibly the M50. Labour transport spokeswoman Róisín Shortall revealed senior RPA executives met with local councillors, TDs and executives of Ballymun regeneration this week to work out a solution. Ms Shortall said there were serious difficulties with all of the original RPA options. In relation to the on-street design, the route would traverse three major intersections in the area of Main Street. " . . . And you cannot have a high-speed train crossing three junctions at the lights," she said. In relation to the elevated proposal, Ms Shortall said it was impractical to put the train "looking in the first-floor windows of homes" while issues would arise in relation to the space under the line which could give rise to anti-social behaviour. In relation to the trench proposal, she said there were safety issues for pedestrians and trains. The RPA is to revert to the groups on Tuesday with further proposals. According to Ms Shortall, a solution which does not involve any of the original three put forward by the RPA is a must if the project is to be successful. "You simply can't spend €3 billion on a high-speed train and then ruin its effectiveness by asking it to stop three times in a short section for junctions with road traffic." Similarly, she said, it was not realistic to expect people in Ballymun to put up with an elevated or trench section when it could be put underground elsewhere along the route. Metro North is expected to complete its journey from St Stephen's Green to Dublin airport in 17 minutes, arriving at Swords in 26 minutes.