Waterford Rosslare to close

[corktina]

Other countries are not that relevant here. They tend to be more populous if they have better rail and motorway.

In any case I nominate the UK. Try to find a motorway from Reading to Birmingham (ie second busiest provincial station to first busiest.) You would either have to travel as far as Oxford on second rate A road or use M4 to join A34 (trunk road, more or less a motorway) to Oxford again...the long way round

Most of the main irish routes now ahve or soon will have paralell motorways.

[Fergal]

Originally Posted by corktina

Other countries are not that relevant here. They tend to be more populous if they have better rail and motorway.

In any case I nominate the UK. Try to find a motorway from Reading to Birmingham (ie second busiest provincial station to first busiest.) You would either have to travel as far as Oxford on second rate A road or use M4 to join A34 (trunk road, more or less a motorway) to Oxford again...the long way round

Most of the main irish routes now ahve or soon will have paralell motorways.

What? Reading to Birmingham is grade-separated dual carriageway the whole way: M4, A34, M40 is a direct route. Britain's motorway and dual carriageway network is comprehensive, and long distance buses are not really popular there - they are seen as only an option for very tight budgets.

Cars are not a huge threat to the rail service, as people who drive a lot don't take the train now, and never did before, and the number of cars in Ireland is not growing.

However, fast, cheap, bus services ARE a threat, especially as they are cheap. But they are not faster than the train on any route yet, and trains will still miles ahead on comfort. Train travel has not suffered a bigger loss then other public transport numbers in this recession yet.

Although, some countries have protected their train service from buses - it's illegal to run intercity bus services in Germany, for example. Not that I would advocate this here.

[corktina]

Originally Posted by Fergal

What? Reading to Birmingham is grade-separated dual carriageway the whole way: M4, A34, M40 is a direct route. Britain's motorway and dual carriageway network is comprehensive, and long distance buses are not really popular there - they are seen as only an option for very tight budgets.

Cars are not a huge threat to the rail service, as people who drive a lot don't take the train now, and never did before, and the number of cars in Ireland is not growing.

However, fast, cheap, bus services ARE a threat, especially as they are cheap. But they are not faster than the train on any route yet, and trains will still miles ahead on comfort. Train travel has not suffered a bigger loss then other public transport numbers in this recession yet.

Although, some countries have protected their train service from buses - it's illegal to run intercity bus services in Germany, for example. Not that I would advocate this here.

It is not a direct route...you have to drive 20 miles west before heading North. Noone, except for trucks who are obliged too, uses that route.

I enjoy the relaxing train journey but it doesnt go from where I am to where I want to be like my car does , it takes longer (and a lot longer as more mways open) and it costs a lot more. I can also bring passengers with me for free. No contest Im afraid and my point is that a lot more people will be following that path as they realise the train is not quicker, not cheaper and not easier.

[ccos]

Other countries are not that relevant here. They tend to be more populous if they have better rail and motorway.

Wrong are you telling me that what works in many other countys wont work here? These larger populations are not homogunous and these countries have lots of sparsley populated regions and what about Luxembourg its smaller then Ireland

In any case I nominate the UK.

Wrong. The Uk has both a better rail and motorway network then Ireland.

All countries with better railways than Ireland have better motorways, in fact the railways thrive despite all the motorways.

Contrary to what IE would have us believe it is not Motorways that kill railways, it is poor frequencys, usless timetables and shoddy services.

Cork Dublin route is the busiest in the country despite most of the road between the two being motorway. Whats the number of the motorway between Waterford and Rosslare? I cant seem to find it, in fact its the one route in Ireland where the railway is substansially shorter.

Car journeys are nearly always quicker and cheaper everywhere else as well yet the railways are busy

[corktina]

Originally Posted by ccos

Wrong are you telling me that what works in many other countys wont work here? These larger populations are not homogunous and these countries have lots of sparsley populated regions and what about Luxembourg its smaller then Ireland



Wrong. The Uk has both a better rail and motorway network then Ireland.

All countries with better railways than Ireland have better motorways, in fact the railways thrive despite all the motorways.

Contrary to what IE would have us believe it is not Motorways that kill railways, it is poor frequencys, usless timetables and shoddy services.

Cork Dublin route is the busiest in the country despite most of the road between the two being motorway. Whats the number of the motorway between Waterford and Rosslare? I cant seem to find it, in fact its the one route in Ireland where the railway is substansially shorter.

Car journeys are nearly always quicker and cheaper everywhere else as well yet the railways are busy

I have told you already my opinion that ireland is different to most countries because of its popualtion spread (lack of it really)and I have demonstrated as requested one example where the rail route is better than a motorway route.SO Im not wrong thanks.

Cork to Dublin is an hourly 7 coach train.It may be the busiest in the country but it isnt anywhere near full on most journeys.

My point of course is not the status quo but the future. Rail will not be able to hold its market share, never mind increase it where it is slower and more expensive than driving.this is what I said before "if they dont buck up their ideas and improve their services they are going to be on a downward spiral."

[iknowwhereiamgoing]

You paint a very depressing picture of the railways and their future! However, with sensible investment, proper timetabling and most of all promotion of the services provided, there could be a much better future. One forgets that oil is running out and the cost of fuel spirals ever upwards rail travel will hopefully become more of an attractive option for travellers. Nobody seems bothered about Green issues. Railways are by far the greenest form of travel. On the roads there are hundreds of cars with just one person in them. Is it not sensible to entice at least some of these people on to a train that carries perhaps hundreds of people doing the same journey. About freight I am not proposing that we should go back to the days of a locomotive hauling 3 wagons down a branch line, but is it not sensible to have good look at wether at least some extra feight could be transported by rail. Other countries are doing this. There is still scope for reopening mothballed commuter lines. e.g. Midleton - Youghal. Which would have also have the benefit of bringing tourists to and reviving what is a very pleasant resort. Good for new jobs and new business start ups. Single track railways can have a more extensive service. In the South West of England The 40 mile single line from Exeter to the small town of Barnstaple pop. 20K has 12 trains each way daily with only two passing loops and has had much increased useage in recent years despite being very rural and the intermeadiate stations producing small amounts of passengers. It is well marketed with special offers even though the journey time is fairly slow approx 1hr 5 mins and the rolling stock is quite old.

[corktina]

yes thats what Im saying..."must try harder"

[Fergal]

Originally Posted by corktina

It is not a direct route...you have to drive 20 miles west before heading North. Noone, except for trucks who are obliged too, uses that route.

I enjoy the relaxing train journey but it doesnt go from where I am to where I want to be like my car does , it takes longer (and a lot longer as more mways open) and it costs a lot more. I can also bring passengers with me for free. No contest Im afraid and my point is that a lot more people will be following that path as they realise the train is not quicker, not cheaper and not easier.

My point is that people who have cars have always done this, and so, are not going to be the cause of an exodus of train passengers.

[on the move]

Originally Posted by Fergal

However, fast, cheap, bus services ARE a threat, especially as they are cheap. But they are not faster than the train on any route yet, and trains will still miles ahead on comfort. Train travel has not suffered a bigger loss then other public transport numbers in this recession yet.

I don't know if you're referring to Irish bus services, but if you are, you're wrong I'm afraid. Dublin-Galway can be done by bus in just over 2 hours. Dublin-Belfast can be done by bus in a very competitive time than with the train service, runs hourly, it doesn't get bombed, takes you to the city centre in Belfast, and is a fraction of the price.

Tomorrow will be a very sad day in Irish Rail's history.

[iknowwhereiamgoing]

My, this is all so depressing!! Other countries have had express buses and trains in competition, The train is almost always the more expensive, but most people continue to prefer the train. I know I would rather spend three hours on a train than two on a bus any day. The railways need investment to increase line speeds but also good timetables and conections with feeder lines and other forms of transport. Most people take buses for their cheaper prices rather than for any other reason. Most people enjoy train travel but how many feel the same about bus or coach travel. Someone mentioned that in Germany that long distance coach services were not allowed to compete with the railways Perhaps that should be considered here, but only after proper investment in the railways in both infrastructure, timetabling and a more adventurous fares policy. The railways are important for the future, don't give up on them, fight for investment. Lift this dark cloud.

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by iknowwhereiamgoing

The railways need investment to increase line speeds but also good timetables and conections with feeder lines and other forms of transport.

Sorry, but buses are reserved for the "sister company". Try walking into Heuston next week and asking for a ticket to Campile via Plunkett.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Ronald Binge

Maxpax? I prefer real coffee to instant, and on every occasion a train to a bus,and I'm not the only one. Sorry that human beings get in the way of your yellow pack public transport.

A balance needs to be struck. The more passengers, the more likely a service is to be financially viable, that add-ons will be available and the more willing the government will be to open the purse strings.

Originally Posted by iknowwhereiamgoing

Someone mentioned that in Germany that long distance coach services were not allowed to compete with the railways

The German situation may be about to change. The rule is that buses may not compete with trains unless the bus provides a significant advantage to the passenger. So in the Irish context a Ballina-Sligo bus would be allowed, but a Ballina-Westport might not and a Ballina-Dublin definitely wouldn't.

There was a court case where the ruling was that a material fare advantage could be considered a significant advantage. No doubt DB and the other railways will appeal.

[on the move]

The final Rosslare-Waterford Railcar train has arrived in Waterford. Only the return journey remains, where Campile, Ballycullane, Wellington Bridge, and Bridgetown await one final train before their stations closedown.

[iknowwhereiamgoing]

What a sad day for the rail network when one of Ireland's most scenic and historic railways is allowed to close without any attempt to run a decent service on the line. No attempt either to look outside the box to look at other possible income flows, like heritage and tourist trains trains to augment a decent regular timetable. There are a few lines in the UK where this has been tried successfully. Where there was once trains, now only the weeds will grow, like other mothballed lines, Keep fighting this.