Enterprise fleet refurbishment

[Jamie2k9]

Beyond their funding, anyway.

Is there funding available for hourly Enterprise? If there was, do the Mk3 sets still exist?

No, but they could get a Mark IV

thats my point.

it did take an extraordinary amount of time to get the Mark 3 gen vans done.

Yeah sorry not sure what way I read it first, note that the first set is in service 5 months now, so really issues should be sorted or at least not one/two failures happening daily.

Don't know what happened today but yesterday 0735 was failed before departure and an ICR replaced it

Did they mange to get the last 5 coach run before it returning to Heuston after the charter to GVS on Tuesday.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by James Shields

Beyond their funding, anyway.

Is there funding available for hourly Enterprise? If there was, do the Mk3 sets still exist?

well, the funding was certainly as issue, but everything is split 50/50 on the enterprise with the UK Gov.

it still remains an aim, do the mark3's still exist is a good one, I cant remember if the ones that went off to Belmond were being kept for Enterprise (although I would guess that they would ahve needed to keep a lot more for Enterprise than that) but I do recall some statements to the effect that some were being retained for hourly Belfast services. Probably quietly abandoned.

our old friends at IRN report that there are a lot of Mark3's hanging about in 2012, but I seem to remember that they were all moved from places like north wall and Dundalk and can be now seen in the latest Hyundai i40 at a showroom near you

[James Shields]

I think the Belmond ones were all for a luxury sleeper train for railtours: http://www.irishrail.ie/news/belmond

[Mickey H]

The 0735 22K yesterday was a 4 car, 22037 did the special. Today's failure was a CAWS fault

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Mickey H

The 0735 22K yesterday was a 4 car, 22037 did the special. Today's failure was a CAWS fault

Probably the same CAWS fault as the previous day.

[Mickey H]

0645 and 0935 C3K today

[Inniskeen]

0645 sitting in Dundalk this morning for about ten minutes - really frustrating for passengers expected to get up earlier to suit Irish Rail's non existing 10 minute DART !

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

well, the funding was certainly as issue, but everything is split 50/50 on the enterprise with the UK Gov.

it still remains an aim, do the mark3's still exist is a good one, I cant remember if the ones that went off to Belmond were being kept for Enterprise (although I would guess that they would ahve needed to keep a lot more for Enterprise than that) but I do recall some statements to the effect that some were being retained for hourly Belfast services. Probably quietly abandoned.

our old friends at IRN report that there are a lot of Mark3's hanging about in 2012, but I seem to remember that they were all moved from places like north wall and Dundalk and can be now seen in the latest Hyundai i40 at a showroom near you

Apart from the Belmond rake and a coach being used for the weedsprayer train, there are no Mark 3 coaches left - they've all been scrapped.

The hourly enterprise could still happen - but it would need all the Mark 4 sets back in service and most of the 2700s as well to cascade ICRs across.

[Mark Gleeson]

Mk3's left

Inchicore
1 diner, 7408 I think
1 exec coach, 7161 (7162 might be there as well as I don't have eyes on the 'green' Mk3)
1 gen van for weedspray/infrastructure 7607

Dublin Port
1 std lying in Dublin Port owned by Belmond)

York Road
4 gen van on Enterprise



There aren't enough Mk4 sets to go around, there are 8 sets, allowing for 1 out of use thats just enough for hourly Dublin Cork, IE would need to provide 3 to allow for hourly Dublin Belfast and they are already at 5 in service on Dublin Cork on Fridays

[Inniskeen]

Seems a big shopping list given that Irish Rail should need to contribute no more than one ICR set. Even with the current extended journey times five sets should, in theory, be (just) sufficient to cover the basic hourly service, the fourth De-Dietrich being a spare. Depending on the actual timetable the ICR could have the advantage of providing some cover for the 0735 which IR so frequently fail to get away on time. So three DDs, one ICR, one NIR C3K or C4K with spare DD. Current journey times and punctuality probably will dictate a sixth set which would have the advantage of providing much needed step back cover throughout the day.

Something big needs to be done with this service unless it is to follow the Rosslare into relative obscurity and near irrelevance.

[James Shields]

6:45 Enterprise was late again at Drogheda. A 4-car 29K arrived for Dundalk and Drogheda passengers, so I've no idea when the Enterprise arrived.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

Apart from the Belmond rake and a coach being used for the weedsprayer train, there are no Mark 3 coaches left - they've all been scrapped.

The hourly enterprise could still happen - but it would need all the Mark 4 sets back in service and most of the 2700s as well to cascade ICRs across.

yup, last night I was gazing at pics of carraiges being pulverised in a scrapyard in the north.

there aren't enough Mark4's for that to happen (although you have to wonder why they sent a mark4 on a gauging mission up to Belfast recently).

There is also the branding exercise - Mark4/DD are on the routes to Cork and Belfast for a reason, they are being marketed as superior services to the common railcar fleet. That's diluted by putting a lot of railcars on, for whatever reason.

If there is anything like long term planning going on, both types of carriages will be entering end of life within 10 years of each other, if they were all replaced at the same time using a common stock you would have a lot of flexibility. that's probably 20 years from now so lots of time to get ready for it.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

yup, last night I was gazing at pics of carraiges being pulverised in a scrapyard in the north.

there aren't enough Mark4's for that to happen (although you have to wonder why they sent a mark4 on a gauging mission up to Belfast recently).

There is also the branding exercise - Mark4/DD are on the routes to Cork and Belfast for a reason, they are being marketed as superior services to the common railcar fleet. That's diluted by putting a lot of railcars on, for whatever reason.

If there is anything like long term planning going on, both types of carriages will be entering end of life within 10 years of each other, if they were all replaced at the same time using a common stock you would have a lot of flexibility. that's probably 20 years from now so lots of time to get ready for it.

Apologies the Mk 4s are needed in Heuston to cascade stock for the PPT service.

Reinstating some/all of the 2700s and then some rejigging of sets could release some ICRs - I'd imagine they'd want to use the 5 car sets to ensure consistency of service with Enterprise Plus being offered.

That is a lot of rejigging but given the lack of interest by IE in providing 1st Class on other routes apart from Tralee the five car sets would see better use on the Belfast route.

[Jamie2k9]

Reinstating some/all of the 2700s and then some rejigging of sets could release some ICRs - I'd imagine they'd want to use the 5 car sets to ensure consistency of service with Enterprise Plus being offered.

Consistency, really....there is no a single bit of consistency between both services.

That is a lot of rejigging but given the lack of interest by IE in providing 1st Class on other routes apart from Tralee the five car sets would see better use on the Belfast route.

Lack of interest, would think they are operating in the real world, there never has been strong demand for first class and never will be. Yes the product is not good however no matter how much you improve it, it will never be profitable as it just takes away standard seating on units and would required additional coaches i.e. restoring 5 coach units to 6 and so on.

And for what, maybe on a good day 6-10 people having a coach to themselves. Tralee does reasonably well when you compare to other routes however it's not spectacular by a long stretch. The same with Cork.

Time is money and IE would be better addressing such issues on the network.

This bravado that Belfast needs first class is complete rubbish, times have changed and I really don't think either company grasp that. Ask a single passenger what needs to change on the route:
Increase in service to hourly or just an increase?
Faster service?
Reliable service?
Would non first class stop you from using the service?

I think we know what the answers would be, with the service failing daily how on earth are the rich boy's coping with NIR stock, have they all switched to the cars, you know since first class is so critical to the route...

By all means provide on the real peak services but I'm sure even today off peak is not bursting at the scenes, so it's not so important.

It's like the whole Aer Lingus/Ryanair divide long ago, now they are more less the same!

Then who I am to tell the alleged experts running our railways who have made such wonderful decisions in the last few months, they would never be wrong

[Inniskeen]

First class is important on the Belfast route, at this stage it is one of the few asoects of the service that attracts business. Even still two thirds occupancy is common enough although, frequency, competitive journey times and reliability seem to be beyond the incumbent operators. Part of the issue is that there is too little stock to consistently cover the adverised service. Three sets, no spares, day in, day out just does not work. Matters will improve when the 4th DD returns to traffic, although of course this will not improve one of the country's least dependable service, the 0735 to Belfast.

There is probably a case for the entire DD fleet to be based in Belfast and let IR kick off the service from the Dublin end with an ICR.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by James Shields

6:45 Enterprise was late again at Drogheda. A 4-car 29K arrived for Dundalk and Drogheda passengers, so I've no idea when the Enterprise arrived.

It was on time at Dundalk, but delayed there by the relief service, left Drogheda about 0836 and arrived Dublin about 0909.

[Mark Gleeson]

As it was a C3K a relief was required, had a 6 car C3K been sent down then this would not have been needed

[Inniskeen]

Night have made more sense to send the 0645 first and skip Drogheda with the relief following.

[Jamie2k9]

First class is important on the Belfast route, at this stage it is one of the few asoects of the service that attracts business. Even still two thirds occupancy is common enough although, frequency, competitive journey times and reliability seem to be beyond the incumbent operators. Part of the issue is that there is too little stock to consistently cover the adverised service. Three sets, no spares, day in, day out just does not work. Matters will improve when the 4th DD returns to traffic, although of course this will not improve one of the country's least dependable service, the 0735 to Belfast.

There is probably a case for the entire DD fleet to be based in Belfast and let IR kick off the service from the Dublin end with an ICR.

It is and if 8 services a day have it an maybe 3 or 4 don't it will not impact on the service. People will not just stop using it because first class disappears.

The forth set will help but the performance of all 3 is not acceptable, before the refub prehaps it was but they really need to urgently address the problems as it's consistency getting worse as sets return to service.

[Mickey H]

0645 0930 1235 1520 single C3K today