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Unread 02-12-2007, 12:14   #1
MrX
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Default Terrible service at heuston

My almost 90 year old grandmother was on here way back up to Dublin yesterday on the 1:30pm train from Cork. She had a minor accident in Cork and was on two crutches. (and accompanied by a relative). She has a damaged hip and quite serious mobility difficulties at the moment.

The service was worse than abysmal and the staff just didn't care about her at all.

Problems:

1) My mother asked if she could upgrade at Cork - Kent and was told - no! You must be here 30 mins before the train's departure. The ticket person made no effort to explain that she could upgrade on board and made no effort to help her find a suitable seat in standard class or to give her priority boarding as would be the standard on air transport.

I realise that you may not have been able to buy a supplement at the ticket desk at that stage, but the least they could have done was explained the options!

2) No ramps were offered at any stage and she had to haul herself over the enormous gap at kent. (she didn't ask for one as she assumed none was available). She was actually in pain when she got on as she wrenched her arm on the way in. The lady who was with her also strained herself quite badly catching her.

3) Staff on board made no effort to help her find a seat. Although she did eventually find one in Coach E

4) Passengers wouldn't give her the priority area and staff did not make it available for her.

5) She got to Dublin and again, no ramp was offered. She waited in her seat and nobody came.

6) When she got off the train (last) all the gates were closing. She was about to exit through one of the gates and the ticket checker asked was she boarding or getting off the train and they said getting off. The helpful member of staff simply locked the gate.

7) This meant she had to struggle the entire way up the platform on two very painful hips and crutches.

8) She got to the top of the platform to find ANOTHER locked gate (she'd taken too long to get off the train) (this is where i finally found her!)

9) (the only nice bit) - An older member of heuston staff opened that gate. This was the only person who seemed to care. This is where we finally found her, we could not get access to the platform! Despite several attempts.

10) We had tried to park in the wheelchair space in the setdown area (this was of course being blocked by an inconsiderate person who didn't need it)

11) So, she parked behind it. The parking attendant shouted at her, banged on her windows. She tried to explain and he told her "I don't want to hear your little story" and continued shouting at her...

So, she blocked the entire queue of traffic into the set down area while my granny was being loaded in... as the guy was totally unprepared to help and we were not asking an old lady to walk any further.

My overall experience was that Irish Rail simply do not give a **** about a disabled passenger.

Next time we'll take ryanair! At least legislation forces them to care.

I am phoning them on monday and plan to demand an explanation for this treatment. It's utterly unacceptable. Millions were spent on making those trains accessible and the staff simply failed to give a damn.

It's an absolute disgrace and I find it utterly unforgivable that an old lady was treated so shabbily.

IE ought to be ashamed of themselves. It's not lack of resources, it's staff who simply do not care.

My attitude now is privatise the lot of it!

Last edited by MrX : 02-12-2007 at 12:20.
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Unread 02-12-2007, 14:40   #2
Mark Gleeson
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Many Cork Dublin trains where sold out yesterday so that could explain the upgrades not being available, http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/...ew&news_id=287

Normally if you give Irish Rail notice even a few hours ahead that you will need assistance they will be waiting to help. http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/images/upload/news/296.pdf I've seen this in practice and it works and is surprisingly coordinated, upon boarding the staff confirm the destination, if its a driver only train tell the driver and then phone ahead

Each coach on a Mk4 has a wheelchair ramp, its in the wall opposite the toilet

Rule one is if you need assistance ASK

Now while on train the train manager should have shifted someone out of the priority seats in a unresevered coach, again if they where asked this should have happened. Again the train manager would have arranged the ramp and wheelchair at the Heuston end if asked.

If a member of staff was asked for assistance directly and did not assist there is serious grounds for complaint
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Unread 02-12-2007, 17:31   #3
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My overall experience was that Irish Rail simply do not give a **** about a disabled passenger.
I have to disagree, on the Ballina - Manulla line I have seen nothing but helpfulness towards disabled passengers. They will always provide a ramp if required and an extra member of staff will travel on the train from Ballina with a ramp even though there is also (If I am right) one available at Manulla Junction. I have seen one group of passengers offering a member of staff a tip in reward for his work but he did not accept. The passengers are always quite glad of the assistance.

Even though it should not have to be done, did you contact Iarnrod Éireann in advance of the journey to inform them?
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Unread 02-12-2007, 19:06   #4
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I didn't arrange the transport myself and my grandmother's not one who is likely to ask for help on board. She's a stubbornly independent type.

What really irritates me is the fact that the staff on the platform when she got off at Heuston must have been able to see she was having serious difficulty and did absolutely nothing to help. They could have at least let her out a closer gate rather than letting her wander the entire length of the platform on two crutches!!

The car park attendant was also ridiculously aggressive. His behaviour was totally uncalled for. We were not creating any sort of an obstruction and he actually ended up creating a situation where we'd no choice but to do so. Also he wasn't enforcing the wheelchair space regulations at all. This is the very type of scenario where that space is useful!
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Unread 02-12-2007, 23:25   #5
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Mark your first link doesn't work.
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Unread 02-12-2007, 23:31   #6
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Mark your first link doesn't work.
IE deleted the page, there was some soccer game on which had led to a rush on tickets, despite an extra train being provided.
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Unread 02-12-2007, 23:31   #7
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Did you manage to get any of their names? I'd be irate if a situation like that arose where you obviously are worse off when a staff member is involved.
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Unread 03-12-2007, 00:14   #8
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Well there are a few problems here. My grandmother's not normally this immobile and would not normally need help on a train. She had an accident and this rendered her very immobile to the level that each step was very painful and she was on two crutches.

Now, she asked for help at Kent station at the ticket desk when she arrived. She didn't get offered anything. No priority boarding, nothing. Just told gruffly that she couldn't do an upgrade.

From that point on she just assumed that no further help was available. It's all very well to assume that people know these services exist, but they're not advertised and they're not offered so it's quite difficult to access them. It's a very different scenario for someone who is a long-term wheel chair user or who is used to using these services on board.

How was she supposed to know that there was a ramp available on each coach if no one told her? Or how was she supposed to know that she was supposed to phone ahead if she needed assistance if she's never had to do that before? It's not printed on the tickets, it's not written on a sign, it's not advertised. Sure, it might be on some obscure note on their website, but it's not good enough in my opinion.

I'm sure some IE staff are great when it comes to helping people with mobility issues. However, as usual, there's no consistancey. It's the same as the fact that you can't be sure of getting food on a train half the time. Nothing's predicable, standards are not universally maintained and there's absolutely no quality control worth talking about. One train can be great, clean, well managed and with an excellent food service. You try another train on the same route and it can be filthy, poorly managed and have no catering!

I still think the way she was treated was unacceptably shoddy and that someone should have offered some kind of assistance.

It was extremely obvious that this old lady + her sister were struggling their way up the platform unaided when I arrived. She looks old and she's on two crutches! I mean how hard is it to spot that someone like that might need a hand?! Even if the station's busy, staff saw her and just ignored her.

Also, the way the parking attendant treated us in Heuston was nothing short of absolutely ignorant and was totally unacceptable. I do not appreciate being shouted abuse at by anyone in any situation. There was no problem / major traffic issue. He was just utterly unreasonable and unhelpful

Last edited by MrX : 03-12-2007 at 00:19.
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Unread 03-12-2007, 00:40   #9
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Since she asked for help it becomes a whole different ball game

All staff are meant to have been given training in assisting passengers with mobility problems

The ticket clerk is the problem, if they had acted in accordance with the procedure there would have been someone out with the wheelchair or golf buggy which would have sorted the whole thing, it would have set off a chain of a events

While sitting on the train any mobility difficulty is likely to be hard to spot. The train hosts are very friendly and visible, just ask it makes matters so much easier, they can radio ahead for assistance

Car park dude is a outside contractor not IE

Ticket clerk deserves a serious earful then a p45
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Unread 03-12-2007, 11:37   #10
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The ticket clerk is the problem,

While sitting on the train any mobility difficulty is likely to be hard to spot. The train hosts are very friendly and visible, just ask it makes matters so much easier, they can radio ahead for assistance

Car park dude is a outside contractor not IE

Ticket clerk deserves a serious earful then a p45
Mark, you will recall my experiance with that checker in Cork in August. No-one in the station knew what they were doing and created a problem that didnt exist. A simple telephone call to the following stations would have helped. The ticket checker could have simply noted her situation and called the manager to ensure she was taken care of. It's called using your initiative. This person has none. This person will never get a P45 either becuase this person does things by the book.

The man who closed the gate on her in Heuston was also going by the book and will not be santioned which a a total disgrace he should be given the boot IMHO. As for car park dude complain the ICP about him.

Now, as for the train hosts. I'm sorry Mark, but a pair of crutches arent invisible. The train host should make themselves aware of any passengers who have any needs for ramps or piority seats. It is not good enough to simply say "Ask". It's not like they have a million things to do on the disgracefully long journey from Cork to Dublin.
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Unread 03-12-2007, 12:08   #11
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I think the person that sold you the tickets should have called someone for assistance to help you to the train and to your seat. From there on the staff on that train could have reported this to the driver. The driver could radio Hueston for assistance on arrival of your train.. But hows the driver to know if any member of staff was'nt bothered to do so.
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They can radio ahead for assistance
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Unread 03-12-2007, 12:26   #12
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Issue is passenger sought assistance from the first IE person they came into contact with

They recieved no assistance at this point and continued on the assumption that no assistance could be provided and thus set the mess into motion

The ticket clerk deserves being shown the door, how hard would it have been to pick up the phone and call the station manager to sort things out, the passenger got the usual get lost IE attitude

Under the new EU regulations IE would be in serious trouble for not providing assistance when directly sought

While ringing ahead provides certainty in that assistance will be provided its not needed when the journey starts and ends at staffed stations. Experience on the ground indicates where assistance is sought on a ad hoc basis it is normally provided

Once on the train its a different case, crutches could easily have been out of sight. There is a contact button provided specifically for a passenger in a wheelchair at each wheelchair space on all post 2000 built trains to avoid this situation, there is no button at the priority seats though on a intercity train that is a recommended feature not a required one

The arrival at Heuston highlights a failure of the staff to ensure the train was cleared. There are three exits off platform 5, two of which are meant to be locked which doesn't help matters

The person you need to be talking to is the IE accessibilty officer
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Unread 03-12-2007, 12:35   #13
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Once on the train its a different case, crutches could easily have been out of sight.
You dont know that. As I said the train host should use their eyes - it is their job to become aquainted with the passengers needs. Also, the ticket person in Cork knew, other people in Cork should have seen her and alerted the train staff.
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Unread 03-12-2007, 13:22   #14
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You dont know that. As I said the train host should use their eyes - it is their job to become aquainted with the passengers needs. Also, the ticket person in Cork knew, other people in Cork should have seen her and alerted the train staff.
but we do not know if the crutches were in sight either

maybe the train host should go around & ask everyone if they would like to be accompanied to the toilet and have their you-know-what wiped as well

i really feel bad for the lady who was traveling and my heart goes out to her. she was treated in a very bad way. i think the main point is that all of the staff (perhaps the train host is the exception) did not display any initiative

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Unread 03-12-2007, 13:54   #15
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No one on the forum has physically there so there are lots of maybes

We know without question that there was a total failure of staff to recognise the needs of a group of passengers

The principle blame lies with the ticket clerk who failed to act upon a direct request for assistance. This member of staff was totally out of order, provided false information (the upgrade ticket) and failed to follow the proceedure to assist the passengers

Other staff in the chain are depending on being told, so if a train manager isn't told, (s)he won't know thus Heuston wouldn't be in the loop and so on. Lots of maybes someone should have copped what was going on but the whole thing comes back to the ticket clerk who failed to deal with the situation.

We don't know what is going on with the gate in Heuston, we don't know if it was the correct gate
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Unread 03-12-2007, 14:35   #16
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maybe the train host should go around & ask everyone if they would like to be accompanied to the toilet and have their you-know-what wiped as well
She's almost 90 years of age and on crutches. She was the last person out of the train. Anyone with any cop should have realised. The train manager is the person in charge he/she for example should have walked the train at Heuston to ensure everyone was off and that, you know, there werent any 90 year olds on crutches waiting for help to get off.
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Unread 03-12-2007, 14:39   #17
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What really irritates me is the fact that the staff on the platform when she got off at Heuston must have been able to see she was having serious difficulty and did absolutely nothing to help. They could have at least let her out a closer gate rather than letting her wander the entire length of the platform on two crutches!!
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We don't know what is going on with the gate in Heuston, we don't know if it was the correct gate
Well, Jesus Mark, I hope that I dont end up drowning in a lake for you to not throw me a lifejacket because it's primarily used on the sea.
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Unread 03-12-2007, 19:54   #18
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Quote:
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Ticket clerk deserves a serious earful then a p45
Sack a Cork IE employee would you? STRIKE!!!!!

The one thing I would say MrX is that while it might be okay to just rock up rather than phone ahead, let's face it everything takes a bit more time when you're mobility impaired and while IE might have staff available it may take a few minutes to find them (especially if they are already assisting other customers). Prearranging assistance is not just done for the train, the airlines recommend the same thing.

Certainly turning up before minus 30 to departure might have been a good idea, since it would have avoided the issue with First and allowed options to be considered with a bit less time pressure. Disabled passenger or not the staff are being told to dispatch the train on time.

Rights are rights but Jerry Maguire was bang on when he said "help me help you".
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Unread 03-12-2007, 20:38   #19
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I find a lot of the opinions expressed on this thread to be very sad indeed. I will resist quoting them. I fully understand MRX's feelings on this matter and agree entirely with them.

As a forum that pertains to be the online facility for a passenger representation body, its sinking fast into nothing more than an apologist wing for IE. That is one unfortunate action.
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Unread 03-12-2007, 21:14   #20
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pm sent to MrX
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