Stasi at Heuston station

[grainne whale]

On board checks are not hard to do if IR are coping with passenger numbers. There is a problem on the Kildare line, train times are 'hit and miss', some trains are half empty while others are overloaded coming into Heuston in the mornings.

[Laois Commuter]

Originally Posted by grainne whale

On board checks are not hard to do if IR are coping with passenger numbers. There is a problem on the Kildare line, train times are 'hit and miss', some trains are half empty while others are overloaded coming into Heuston in the mornings.

Really? How do you get round even a moderately loaded four car train in the morning peak in the 5 minutes between Hazelhatch and Adamstown, for instance? Next time a checker comes round after a stop (eg Sallins or Newbridge on the 1750 ex Heuston), and asks for tickets for people who have boarded - watch the heads go down. Been there, done that. It is impossible without asking to see all tickets - and then people get upset by the disturbance (see other threads on this board in the past).

On train checks are necessary, but by their nature will never catch all. Barrier checks - manned - are the only way to do it and make absolutely sure that every ticket is checked. And if some passengers don't like it, and assault staff doing their jobs, can you blame staff for wanting some serious backup?

LC

[grainne whale]

With all due respect, validation machines are the only answer. Passengers who don't have a tickets just show an old ticket when disembarking at Heuston. Shame on you not purchasing a valid ticket. I have been travelling on that line for the last 10 years, and I have yet to see anyone assulting a ticket checker, most people are on their way to work at that hour of the morning ( these manned checks are only carried out on morning services). Why can't we have such machines at Heuston, it saves all this hassle.
PS By the way I am an annual ticket holder!!

[Laois Commuter]

Originally Posted by grainne whale

With all due respect, validation machines are the only answer. Passengers who don't have a tickets just show an old ticket when disembarking at Heuston. Shame on you not purchasing a valid ticket. I have been travelling on that line for the last 10 years, and I have yet to see anyone assulting a ticket checker, most people are on their way to work at that hour of the morning ( these manned checks are only carried out on morning services). Why can't we have such machines at Heuston, it saves all this hassle.
PS By the way I am an annual ticket holder!!

I too am an annual ticket holder - not sure why you thought it was relevant. Unless you wear a badge saying "I have an annual ticket", how do the staff know? I also hope you are not insinuating that I travel ticketless.

Example as to why validation machines don't catch all. They have been installed at London terminals for some time, but not at rural stations some way out due to cost, especially if they are unstaffed due to access issues in the event of failure or emergency. A blitz was undertaken on a series of evening peak trains out of Victoria. Significant numbers of passengers - enough for the penalty fares to more than pay the cost of the operation - had tickets to Clapham Junction - the first stop. While no system will eliminate this, unless you barrier all stations automatic validation does not work. I ahve also seen passenger vault over such gates, again at several different times of day.

As regards staff assault, I can assure you it does happen, and not just at night. There will also always be those who try to push past to avoid paying. It is also not just skangers - I have seen a well dressed businessman type push a member of staff out of the way before now - and in the UK, the Head of Rail at the Department of Transport was charged with assaulting a staff member who tried to check his ticket. If you were on the front line, and had been on the recieving end, I can assure you that you would want support. I've been there, some years ago when things were not as bad as now, but former colleagues I am still in touch with have some horrifying stories.

In the event of barriers being installed everywhere, I would love to see the reaction of the "sprinters" at Newbridge and Portarlington to the delays at having to show their ticket at the home station - you know, those who start wlking to the front of the train about 15 minutes before they get off so they can be the first over the bridge....

LC

[chris]

Originally Posted by Laois Commuter

Next time a checker comes round after a stop ... and asks for tickets ... watch the heads go down. Been there, done that.

It did sound like you were saying you've travelled ticket-less. Misunderstanding I think

[Laois Commuter]

Originally Posted by chris

It did sound like you were saying you've travelled ticket-less. Misunderstanding I think

Misunderstanding indeed. I have been involved in preventing fraudulent travel (on rail and bus services, front line and higher level) among many roles over in 35 years in the transport industry overseas before semi retirement and a totally unrelated job over here. "Been there, done that" referred to trying to catch people dodging, not being one of them.

LC

[Terrontress]

The ticket checks in Pearse Station are useless. The sheer volumes of passengers make it impossible to check everyone. You see new people working there who try to look at everyone's. After several months they just nod at anything you hold up to them.

The only people I have ever seen caught for fare evasion in Pearse are those who realise they have forgotten a weekly ticket and voluntarily hand themselves over to the ticket inspectors.

And the ticket barriers currently favoured by IÉ are very poor. It is possible for at least 3 to go through in the time it takes the barriers to open and close.

As per police at the airport, there is a difference between "Airport Police" and "airport police". There are armed airport police in Dublin who deal with crime and support customs etc. The Airport Police seem to man the little portakabin at the bottom of the ramp as well as putting out traffic cones, clamping cars etc.

[grainne whale]

It is obviously some time since you have travelled by train in UK or Europe, where from what I can see nobody evades train fare as there are checkers on board. IR (management and some staff) are very confrontational as regards passengers, they do need to change their attitude, it's very much a them and us situation, they are lagging behind the rest of Europe by 15 years. I have yet to see thugs (Stasi) at any station in UK or Europe when disembanking from a train.
PS I mentioned that I was an annual ticket holder, just to put you at ease that I was not a fare evader.

[MOH]

Manual ticket checks are a waste of everyone's time. A couple of years ago, as a test, I went through Tara St every evening, queued up with everyone else for the one guy checking tickets, and showed a ticket form the previous day or week. Was never pulled up on it.

[grainne whale]

Actually that's what is happening when they have ticket checkers at Heuston lately. Maybe then should recruit ticket checkers with good eyesight.

[Mark Gleeson]

I've travelled enough in the UK and exit barriers are popping up everywhere

Anyone who has been out the back entrance of Birmingham New Street will know all about the deck chairs and the small army of inspectors

The level of on train inspection is significantly greater than here, but fare evasion is always a problem

Even on a fully gated system like the Paris Metro I've been stopped within a station for my ticket

There is a much greater respect for authority and rules in Europe which means inspections are rarer but when they happen they are seriously heavy and random

In the 6 months after the exit gates went live in Connolly ticket revenue surged by 15%, the scale of evasion is obviously a problem

[Colm Donoghue]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

In the 6 months after the exit gates went live in Connolly ticket revenue surged by 15%, the scale of evasion is obviously a problem

In the six months after the exit gates went live and revenue surged 15% and all passengers with valid tickets were inconvenienced particularly with irish rail's very poor annual ticket mag stripe system, How much did Irish rail reward their faithful customers by a price reduction? I must have missed that part of the equation.

All stick, no carrot

[Laois Commuter]

Originally Posted by grainne whale

It is obviously some time since you have travelled by train in UK or Europe, where from what I can see nobody evades train fare as there are checkers on board.

Two weeks ago actually. Nottingham station. Barrier staff and security staff. Three people being "encouraged" to pay for tickets as they were without as I exited the station. Part of problem as outlined in earlier post - open / unstaffed stations and insufficient time to check between all stations, or passengers not offeering to pay as conductor passes.

Same UK visit - train halted for 25 minutes at Chesterfield while police were called to remove a fare evader who had verbally abused, and threatened physical assault of, on-train conductor. It does happen.

Sorry to disabuse you....

LC

[grainne whale]

God only knows the places you visit, I have never ever had nor seen any hassle through out Europe or UK, only at Heuston Station in the mornings ie. 500 people herded through 1 exit by Irish Rail staff supported by these thugs. A better solution are validation machines, no one can pick a row with one!!!

[plant43]

Originally Posted by grainne whale

It is obviously some time since you have travelled by train in UK or Europe, where from what I can see nobody evades train fare as there are checkers on board. IR (management and some staff) are very confrontational as regards passengers, they do need to change their attitude, it's very much a them and us situation, they are lagging behind the rest of Europe by 15 years. I have yet to see thugs (Stasi) at any station in UK or Europe when disembanking from a train.
PS I mentioned that I was an annual ticket holder, just to put you at ease that I was not a fare evader.

I'm pretty certain that France (for example) has a much higher rate of fare evasion than Ireland. This is especially true on commuter services such as the metro and the RER where I would put fare evasion at anything between 33% and 50%. (In certain stations I got funny looks when I was buying a ticket). On SNCF trains it's not as high but it's still a big problem. On TGV's, you're 99.9% likely to be checked (I have traveled a few times on TGV without being checked). On regional trains, it's hit and miss. There is usually a controller on board, but they don't always check tickets. Again, I traveled quite a few times on regional trains without being checked.

You get the same "them and us" attitude over there as well. I did encounter some incredibly rude SNCF staff while in France, equally as rude as the IR equivalent. And while they might not have STS over there, they do have the amry patrolling alot of the major stations in France these days and I would find them more intimidating than STS.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by plant43

You get the same "them and us" attitude over there as well. I did encounter some incredibly rude SNCF staff while in France, equally as rude as the IR equivalent. And while they might not have STS over there, they do have the amry patrolling alot of the major stations in France these days and I would find them more intimidating than STS.

These were probably CRS, not army. Its not uncommon to see them in public places, with rifles or sub-machineguns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compagn...9curit%C3%A 9