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Unread 05-05-2016, 09:10   #1
Mickey H
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Default Two month city centre closure

2100 May 21st until "end of July"

https://m.luas.ie/news/news-item.html?newsid=2585
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Unread 05-05-2016, 09:47   #2
James Shields
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I understand the need for the closure, but the replacement bus service seems a lot less convenient than it could be. Would it not have been possible to run it along the Luas tracks (even if a diversion around O'Connell St/Marlborough St is necessary)?

Connolly/Busaras seem particularly poorly served in the westerly direction, with the nearest stops at Jury's Inn or Eden Quay.

Also, it's not entirely clear whether you need to be tagged on for the duration of the journey. If you are going from Temple Bar to Sir John Rogerson's Quay, do you need to walk up to Jervis, tag on, walk back to the bus, then get off at the Spencer Hotel, walk up to Mayor St to tag off, then walk back over the bridge?

There are a lot of city centre journeys that are easy on Luas that the bus service just seems too much effort for.
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Unread 05-05-2016, 09:52   #3
Jamie2k9
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I don't see the bus service lasting the full 2 months, barley anybody will use it!
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Unread 06-05-2016, 09:29   #4
James Shields
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I understand the need for the closure of Luas between Jervis and the Point. However, the replacement bus service seems poorly planned.

Connolly Station and Busaras seem to be particularly poorly served by the replacement service, especially westbound where the nearest stops are Jury's Inn and Eden Quay, and I suspect for most people it will be as easy to walk to Jervis.

Would it not be possible to run the buses along the Luas red line tracks? I realise that it would probably be necessary to divert onto the quays to get around O'Connell Street and Marlborough street, however, it should be possible for the bus to start at the Jervis Luas stop, run down Liffey St to the quays, stop at Eden Quay as a replacement for the Abbey stop, and rejoin the Luas tracks at Beresford Place.

In the westerly direction it would probably be necessary to Loop around Busaras, turn back onto Memorial Road, cross over Talbot Bridge and along George's Quay and Burgh Quay before turning onto O'Connell Street, using one of the O'Connell St stops as a replacement for the Abbey Station. It could then rejoin the Luas tracks to Jervis.

I wonder if they considered something like this?
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Unread 06-05-2016, 09:36   #5
Mark Gleeson
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From Connolly to Point no issue with use of the Luas tracks, but the bus could not trigger the AVL loop for the junctions,
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Unread 06-05-2016, 09:50   #6
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Plus the simple fact that the route is not signalled for road traffic at the junctions!
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Unread 06-05-2016, 14:19   #7
Thomas J Stamp
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wouldn't it be better for dublinbikes to offer a special discounted membership to luas customers for the two months. they'll be able to use the line (they already do anyway)
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Unread 06-05-2016, 14:53   #8
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Should it really take 2 months closure? Could they not lay the cross-city line tracks up to a couple of meters from the existing tracks and then to the close-in work and the actual crossings in a series of night-time and weekend possessions?

I wonder how long the disruption lasts in other cities where existing lines are being added-to or crossed.
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Unread 06-05-2016, 16:40   #9
James Howard
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From an outsider's perspective it is hard to see why it should take so long.

A few years ago, I used to travel to Germany every couple of weeks - mostly to the same city. One trip, I arrived after being away for 2 weeks and there was a 2 km stretch of tram line dug up. 2 weeks later, it was all back up and running again. I shudder to think what will happen in 20 or 30 years when it's time to renew the Luas rails.

There is no real reason why westbound buses couldn't use the tracks between the Point and Amiens Street. Eastbound is a bit trickier. But, aside from Connolly the bus stops on that stretch aren't more than a couple of hundred metres away from the tram so it isn't a major issue.
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Unread 06-05-2016, 22:08   #10
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
Should it really take 2 months closure? Could they not lay the cross-city line tracks up to a couple of meters from the existing tracks and then to the close-in work and the actual crossings in a series of night-time and weekend possessions?

I wonder how long the disruption lasts in other cities where existing lines are being added-to or crossed.
They have/are doing that. It does seem long but the fact there is no opening date leads me to believe it's worse case.
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Unread 07-05-2016, 10:24   #11
berneyarms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACustomer View Post
Should it really take 2 months closure? Could they not lay the cross-city line tracks up to a couple of meters from the existing tracks and then to the close-in work and the actual crossings in a series of night-time and weekend possessions?

I wonder how long the disruption lasts in other cities where existing lines are being added-to or crossed.
Bear in mind that the two junctions are adjacent to at least one hotel which does rule out night time works.

It's not just two lines crossing one another - there are sets of points to install at both locations on the existing tracks.
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Unread 07-05-2016, 17:34   #12
Colm Moore
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They had expected they would be able to operate with minimum disruption by overlaying the section from Arnotts to the Abbey Theatre with raised (100-200mm) track.

The expected length of closure and the mediocre, disconnected bus service are both disappointing. It doesn't mention a frequency or timetable.

Operating the bus from Heuston Station would be a lot more useful. Operating a bus terminus in the bus lane on Bachelors Walks would seem problematic.

Operating bus services from Jervis stop would be problematic as Abbey Street Upper is shared with general traffic. However, east of the construction works it would be eminently possible.


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Originally Posted by ACustomer View Post
Should it really take 2 months closure?
I agree.

Quote:
Could they not lay the cross-city line tracks up to a couple of meters from the existing tracks
They will do this.

Quote:
then to the close-in work and the actual crossings in a series of night-time and weekend possessions?
That would likely be impractical. A 'big bang' approach would be quicker, cheaper and safer, although admittedly at the cost of a closure. Not that they have to do two flat crossings and two turnouts.
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Unread 07-05-2016, 19:27   #13
Colm Moore
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Tell me if I have this right:

Quote:
Luas Replacement Bus Service

The proposals will have a disproportionate impact on mobility-impaired and non-local passengers, who will need to walk longer distances and change multiple times. Notwithstanding any information campaigns, needing to do multiple changes creates legibility, information and physical disconnects.

There is a lack of direct replacement bus services to Busáras (international, long distance and regional coach services), Amiens Street (all Dublin Bus services to the Fairview corridor and ferry port), Connolly Station (in particular northbound InterCity, commuter and DART services) and 3 Arena (East Wall Road has stops, especially for airport and coach services).

Lack of stops at Customs House impairs connections to Tara Street Station (in particular southbound InterCity, commuter and DART services).

Bachelors Walk - may be difficult to operate a terminus within a busy bus lane, even if parking is removed.

Eden Quay - eastbound and westbound both suffer from bus operators (primarily Dublin Bus, but also Swords Express and others) parking out-of-service buses in bus stops.

Crampton Quay - can this area handle surges of extra pedestrians? It may be useful to create a second stop - one stop for Luas to set-down and the existing stop for Bus Éireann to pick-up.

In particular, the junction of Rosie Hackett Bridge and Burgh Quay suffers from traffic abusing the yellow box junction.

Are there additional bus priority measures than can be put in place?

Can the current track spaces be used as part of the replacement bus service? This may require vehicle detection loops at junctions being altered or new ones being installed

Would it be possible to merge this the proposed bus service with a modified Dublin Bus route 90 service?

What ticketing and on-site information arrangements are being put in place?

Many passengers have paid for a seamless Luas service, which will now either be unusable (waiting perhaps 5 minutes for a 5 minute journey is unacceptable). How are these passengers to be compensated?

If a large number of stops are to be out of use, what maintenance / improvement works are to be carried out during the closure?
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Unread 08-05-2016, 16:38   #14
Inniskeen
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I imagine there will also be reduced frequency west of Jervis given that only one track will be in use between Jervis and Smithfield. It will be interesting to how this will be controlled !
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Unread 22-05-2016, 10:38   #15
Jamie2k9
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Quote:
I imagine there will also be reduced frequency west of Jervis given that only one track will be in use between Jervis and Smithfield. It will be interesting to how this will be controlled !
They have installed a temp set of points outside Arnotts.
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Unread 06-06-2016, 16:37   #16
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The two diamond crossings between the Red and Cross-city lines were installed within a week of the closure. I presume the two connecting turnouts are similarly capable of being installed quite quickly. It make the two-month closure look more unwarranted than ever.
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Unread 07-06-2016, 14:52   #17
Mickey H
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Similar work in Switzerland would have been done in a week with proper bus substitution while the line(s) remained closed.
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Unread 07-06-2016, 17:04   #18
berneyarms
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Quote:
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Similar work in Switzerland would have been done in a week with proper bus substitution while the line(s) remained closed.
Really?

The main tram lines through the city centre in nearby Munich are closed from mid-May until mid-September due to major civil works.

That's four months!

I do love how people in this country seem to immediately be experts in civil engineering and can tell exactly how long they should take.
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Unread 08-06-2016, 13:31   #19
Thomas J Stamp
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Stalin would have had it done in a few days
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Unread 08-06-2016, 17:08   #20
James Howard
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As would Brunel Probably both would have incurred a few casualties along the way.
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