The Cork Dublin Express Train has entered service

[MrX]

Yeah, found a bin, there was a small one located opposite my seat, similar to the bins you'd find in a MK3 coach i.e. tiny.

The on board cleaner took absolutely everything though. she just went along with a large bin bag removing anything that was destined for the bin.

I'd say she passed through our coach at least 4 times.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Just to note a CDE went past the gaff at 11.00 last night heading towards Cork all lit up, couldnt have been a service that late, maybe they're mvoing them into position for this morning?

[MrX]

There were Spanish, CAF crew on board the CDE on Tuesday morning. Seems they're still very much doing a shakedown and tweak.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Yes, they were probably brought over to take photos of the 201 pulling their lovely carraiges. "Oy, Jose, what the fuches ess thees heap of garbage doing on our trains??? And whats with theese yello and orange sheet?"

[Mark Gleeson]

Its industry standard practice for a engineering team to be onboard a new train. Bear in mind nothing beats a train load of passengers to shakedown such things as the toilet and automatic doors. There is still work ongoing on the ride, so you need people on board to review the performance. The PIS issue requires someone to sit there and watch to catch the glitches

Set 4002 did have a scary moment last week when she shut down for a short time, having the engineers on board means it gets fixed on site quickly and the train staff learn first hand how to deal with faults, you can't just give it a thump like the old trains

[MrX]

Thomasjstamp,

There are plenty of far uglier locos hauling talgos and other fast intercity trains in spain. They go a step further and paint them a lovely colour of extra hideous yellow.
http://www.wefer.com/imatges/renfe/252-alt-02.jpg

The 201 actually fits into the CDE sets in its new livery much more so than it does with the MK3. The whole set looks more "together".

The IE orange colour scheme applied to the MK3 was never the same as the orange on the 201 locos. They're a much brighter shade and it never looked quite right.

The CDE livery on the 201 looks extremely good. Sure, they're not as slick as a pointed powercar, but they don't look at all bad.

I've actually heard people talking about the "new engines" and refering to repainted 201s. They seem to suit that kind of silver livery.

Incidently, there are a few very feasable high speed engine options out there that could be built into a CDE powercar.

read: http://www.mtu-friedrichshafen.com/e...s_050112_1.htm

There are some almost off-the-shelf sollutions out there that could be rolled out with the CDE sets.

Interestingly, the CAF site talks about the CDE having an "initial operating speed of 160km/h" so, I can only assume that IE planned 200km/h operation soon.

There are some interesting highspeed diesels appearing in spain too...
http://www.revistalineas.com/Lineas1...ticia01-05.jpg

IE could quite reasonably come up with a suitable powercar.

[Thomas J Stamp]

That is an awful train in Spain (probably on the plain, mainly) admittedly, the vision of a dozen Manuels falling around dressed as waiters after glimpsing an orange and yellow 201 at the end of their nice train just floated into my mind.......

that last photo, I have a feeling that the new intercity DMU's will be like that

[James Shields]

1) Crew well dressed, suits rather than the usual uniform.
2) Excellent Passenger Info system, far better than anything I've seen on IE to-date.
3) On-train cleaners. A cleaner went up and down the train picking up any rubbish passengers might have on their tables and making sure everything was spick and span.
4) Train manager made a manual announcement introducing himself.

These are all common enough on the Enterprise (shame the same can't be said for your other positives), so I'm very glad to see them copied on the CDE. Lets hope they'll be seen on other intercity services in due course.

Comparing the CDE ride to the Enterprise, the CDE wins hands down. Its not perfect, but for the most part its smooth with just occasional bumps. The DD coaches, by comparison, shake and shudder all over the place.

[MrX]

I found the ride pretty comparable to the MK3 coaches to be honest. I think the major difference is that you feel and hear the bumps more on the CDE coaches because of vastly improved sound insulation and fully-functional smoothly operating end doors.

The MK3 coaches make plenty of creaks and groans as they move along, most of which seems to come from the gangways and coupling systems. You don't hear any of that on the CDEs as the gangways seem to be far more insulated and generally a much slicker design. I suspect the tighter coupling helps that too. When that's combined with working end doors, excellent double glazing and the much more silent climate control / ventilation system you tend to hear any little bump.

The insulation levels are extreemly good. When it passed other trains at full speed and passed under bridges etc, you didn't really hear anything.

The MK3 coaches produce an acceptably good ride too but it has its downsides.

I certainly found the CDE ride different, but I wouldn't have said it was worse than the MK3s. Overall, it's a more pleasant train to be on-board. It is smoother, even if you notice the odd bump. The best description I could give is the suspension is very smooth, but perhaps a little harder.

The MK3s are excellent coaches, but they're knocking on and are no where near as highly specified. They might compare well if they had a total internal refurbishment, including new air con, end doors, seats, lighting ...

I think CAF and Design Triangle did an excellent job on these though. They are FAR nicer than the new virgin trains I've been on in the UK.

The CDE interiors just feel bright, airy, clean, comfortable and spacious. The tint used on the windows is also far more suited to the irish climate than the dark brown tint used on some of the other sets e.g. the cu na mara. It creates a daylight blue sort of ambiance inside. Some of the tinted windows I've seen in the UK make the train look dark inside and would be more suited to very sunny climates.

The seats are not quite as springy as the MK3s, they're clearly some sort of foam, more like modern airline seats, but I found them comfortable. I'm quite tall and have always found the MK3 seats absolutely horrible as they have a really weird design that pushes my back into an almost hunched position. i.e. the lower part of what should be the headrest hits me just above the shoulder blades and the rest of the seat provides no lower back support. The CDE seat design was much more back-friendly.

I also suspect that the heavily sprung seat bottoms in the MK3 masks some of the vibration.

My suspension test is the cup of coffee on the table... It didn't move/splash/vibrate and behaved very much like it does on a MK3. If you try this on the MK2s, CAF / Mitsui Commuters or Cravens you'll see the difference!!!

[Mark Gleeson]

Of course it is important to note the first MK3 rolled off the production line in 1972, the interior in the Irish batch is the same, the production run lasted without revision until 1989 which was exceptional (the MK3 intl wasn't as good). The real comparison is the enterprise coaches and there is no comparison the CDE wins hands down

I've only been on set 4002 and Irish Rail managers were quick to point out 2 facts,
1) Its sooooo much better than enterprise
2) Its not perfect more tweaks coming

4002 was swapped for 4003 which presumably has the improved suspension. The ride is good but when you hit a seriously rough patch the MK3 is still king

The real test is what the coaches will be like with 250,000 km on the clock

We hope Irish Rail will retain and rebuild a significant number of the MK3 coaches, from a design point of view it hasn't been bettered, its 7.5 tons lighter than the CDE coach, has automatic doors and a proven safety in the highest speed rail accidents to have occured. All it really needs is an interior refit. GNER in the UK have done so to much aclaim

If there in any of the UK crew reading this is your MK5 for the taking and yes a 26m version would be possible

[MrX]

The only problem would be that the MK3, even refurbished, would have wheelchair accessiblity issues. Are the side doors wide enough for proper wheelchair access? The internal doors and seating layouts could easily be modified to suit.

MK3 is a nice coach, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying the CDE is pretty excellent. Certainly seems to be the best thing to hit the rails since the MK3s.

IE/NIR should seriously consider buying a few more sets to suplement or replace the DD coaches on the enterprise run.

a CDE + high speed power car combination would be pretty good!

Is the Belfast line "bumpier" by any chance?

[craigybagel]

When did the two sets swap? Ive travelled on the CDE twice now:Wednesday the 7th and Wednesday the 14th of this month, both times travelling all the way down to Cork and returning on Mk3s and if theyve made changes to the suspension on the 4003 set then it hasnt worked the ride on both trips was pretty bad. The trains themselves are brilliant and a huge improvement on the Mk3s but for me the ride did stand out as being very poor.

[MrX]

Apparently they've just swapped this week.

How are those kinds of adjustments made? Does it involve actually physically tweaking the springs and dampers? or do those trains have some sort of active suspension that can be software-adjusted?

Btw, speaking of the enterprise's bumps and rocky ride, are there any other similar trains elsewhere in europe? I know that I have been on some rather bumpy french non-TGV trains in the southwest of france. Just wondering if they're also De Deitrich suspensions?
I know the early TGVs had serious ride issues on non-TGV track.

De Deitrich, was one of several companies involved in the TGV project. De Deitrich off-loaded its transit division (De Dietrich Ferroviaire) to Alstom in the 1990s, so the Enterprise is now effectively an Alstom product. It's now Alstom DDF

[James Shields]

As far as I know the DD coaches are the same as the ones operating on the channel tunnel route. The track on that route is built to a very different stnadard, though.

[Mark Gleeson]

DD built the coaches based on the Eurostar bodyshell, note the Enterprise coaches are longer in length.

The suspension is completely different compared to the TGV setup, that coaches are not articulated for a start. Principle problem on enterprise is the cornering it sways like mad since there is no yaw damping so the bogie hunts around, the CDE sets have a big fat yaw damper. Was talking to someone who went to Belfast recently first complaint I couldn't write the thing has shaking too much

We presume that set 4002 was withdrawn for modifications to be carried out, its a spanner job. I know a new PIS software version is also planned.

[MrX]

Mark,

I noticed that the CDE PIS has a few little glitches.

When it welcomes passengers aboard at intermediate stops it announces that this is the "insert current time" train from Dublin to Cork...
Which sort of doesn't make sense. It was saying things like "this is the 11:05 service from Dublin Heuston to Cork... and will be calling at Cork" when it got to mallow.

It would make sense if it said "this is the 11:05 service from Mallow to Cork, en route from Dublin" or something like that.

I know french trains say something along those lines.

[Mark Gleeson]

This is the glitch

Leaving Kildare the 9:00 train will say this is the 9:30 Dublin Cork, thats being removed and replaced with this is the 9:00 Dublin Cork, 11:05 makes no sense if you are 20 minutes late

[James Shields]

I fully agree with the Enterprise complaint. I have written on 2900s, which aren't exactly noted for their ride, and as long as you watch out for the bumps, its managable. By comparison, the Enterprise is a disaster. I found I couldn't write on it at all without the pen jumping all over the page.

As an aside, when we went for the trst run on the CDE, NavanJunction and I got off at Kildare and got a 2900 back. It was interesting to compare the ride on them - obviously the 2900 was vastly inferior, and the comment was "I wouldn't like to be on one of these to Sligo!"

[MrX]

Well, fingers crossed the 29Ks will be replaced with Mitsui intercity DMUs in the not too distant future.

The 29Ks shouldn't be doing intercity runs. It's just totally unacceptable to even pretend that they're intercity trains. They're a decent commuter train and should run as billed.

Trying to compare the CDE to the 29Ks is like trying to compare a luxury long distance coach to a city articulated "bendy bus".

At least the 29000s will bounce you the entire way to your destination. The enterprise seems to frequently decide to apply the parking brakes half way there!

Could the Enterprise be mechanically refurbished i.e. new bogies? e.g. if the CDE bogie and suspension system is successful, perhaps contract CAF to re-do the entire underside of the entrprise coaches and run MK3 city gold sets while they're away for servicing?

[Mark Gleeson]

Bit of a bigger glitch this morning

The 9:00 Dublin Cork broke down before leaving Heuston, locomotive died for some reason