Dublin to get new DART service

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by Gary

I don't think anyone is denying this is a great step forward but even still am concerned why then can't maintain some trains on the traditional Bray - Howth route.

From the Soutsiders perspective look at the volumes getting on the train at Clontarf Road (East Point Business Park) going to the southside in the evening. They will now go to Pearse and have to change trains. Yea big swing its just a change train but still inconvience that could be avoided.

Admit sometimes for the better good you do need to cause some inconvience but even considering the cross track issue am sure you can still accomadate trains on the traditional dart route.

Gary, people can't have it every way, in time people will forget about the 'old' DART route. Mixing and matching will cause problems in the signaling and ruin the planned frequency. The Interconnector will create a level of integration that this city has not seen, the amount of benefit it will bring is worth the minor inconvenience to a few who have to change at Pearse.

[CSL]

Crystal ball: a direct service bray-howth will be retained. [ perhaps in a much reduced state , albeit ] . €10 on it.

All your "against" points are engineering ones and can be worked around.

[markpb]

Originally Posted by CSL

Crystal ball: a direct service bray-howth will be retained. [ perhaps in a much reduced state , albeit ] . €10 on it.

All your "against" points are engineering ones and can be worked around.

I think you're probably right but can the problems be "worked around" without impacting on the service levels?

[clonsilladart]

Originally Posted by CSL

Crystal ball: a direct service bray-howth will be retained. [ perhaps in a much reduced state , albeit ] . €10 on it.

All your "against" points are engineering ones and can be worked around.

I think we have to ask ourselves.... Do we want a Heavy Rail Metro style service and frequencies.....or a Half Arshed, Irish solution to an Irish problem!!!

Interchanges are key to the success of the network......
Either line should only be split towards the end.... i.e. Maynooth/Pace ..... Howth/Balbriggan, etc

[Mark]

Strange that this arguement is only surfacing now since these routes have been in the public domain and in the national media for many years now.

I think our complete unfamiliarity of interchanges and 'an lar' mindset is coming to the fore now. We never seem to have a problem switching lines while on city breaks in places like London, Madrid, Paris etc but when it is presented to us in our own daily lives it becomes an issue.

Like Mark Gleeson has pointed out, with the increased frequency and speed that this new system will provide, journeys such as Bayside to Sandycove with one change at Pearse will probably take the exact same amount of time as it does now.

[markpb]

Originally Posted by Mark

Like Mark Gleeson has pointed out, with the increased frequency and speed that this new system will provide, journeys such as Bayside to Sandycove with one change at Pearse will probably take the exact same amount of time as it does now.

Much as I agree with the new design, the problem with interchange in Ireland is that people (rightly) view public transport as unreliable. Changing means the risk that the second bus/train/tram might be late or not show up. The same journey post-interconnector will only take the same time if there is a minimal interchange time and no delays, that might happen on a good morning during rush hour but what about at 7pm or at weekends?

The ability to deliver 12 trains an hour is great but does anyone where believe IR will have anything close to 5 trains an hour off-peak?

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by clonsilladart

I think we have to ask ourselves.... Do we want a Heavy Rail Metro style service and frequencies.....or a Half Arshed, Irish solution to an Irish problem!!!

Interchanges are key to the success of the network......
Either line should only be split towards the end.... i.e. Maynooth/Pace ..... Howth/Balbriggan, etc

Look at the current malahide/howth setup and ask yourself that again. I have been in howth junction on a sunday night where the next southbound malahide wasn't due for an hour where 3 southbound howths would arrive before the malahide one did. I can't see that working without IE screwing the timetable up

Consistency is what is required. having howth/balbriggan share the track into connolly with maynooth/pace will result in the same problem IE are trying to resolve. Bear in mind howth/balbriggan northbound would share the same track as maynooth/pace southbound unless the midland track was brought into play. would never work.

[Mark Gleeson]

As far as we know Malahide won't be a terminus post 2015, Balbriggan will be

Effectively it will be a clean sheet, exactly as on July 23rd 1984 was when the DART started.

The routes are the way there are for two basic non technical reasons
1. Widest range of connections
2. Most logical arrangment for cross city journeys

[clonsilladart]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

Look at the current malahide/howth setup and ask yourself that again. I have been in howth junction on a sunday night where the next southbound malahide wasn't due for an hour where 3 southbound howths would arrive before the malahide one did. I can't see that working without them screwing the timetable up

Yea... I should have added that a regular and reliable service is key!!!

[CSL]

Nobody taking me up on the bet ? seriously lads this is Ireland now ...

[MOH]

Originally Posted by markpb

Much as I agree with the new design, the problem with interchange in Ireland is that people (rightly) view public transport as unreliable. Changing means the risk that the second bus/train/tram might be late or not show up. The same journey post-interconnector will only take the same time if there is a minimal interchange time and no delays, that might happen on a good morning during rush hour but what about at 7pm or at weekends?

The ability to deliver 12 trains an hour is great but does anyone where believe IR will have anything close to 5 trains an hour off-peak?

That's exactly the problem. IE have consistently shown they're unable to deliver a regular, reliable service, and unable to respond quickly to incidents, on what's largely a one-route line. How are they going to manage this setup?

According to the plans, DARTing northside-southside at peak time should take no longer than it does now, since you'll lose a max of five minutes waiting for your second DART, while you've made up five minutes Clontarf-Pearse.

Does anyone really believe that this is actually going to be the case? If so, please PM me, I'll sell you Tara St bridge.

[Mark]

With the current plans they will effectively be doing away with a timetable and will just have a set peak and off peak frequency.

In good time there will be issues with the northern line but not for some time yet.

[MOH]

Originally Posted by Mark

With the current plans they will effectively be doing away with a timetable and will just have a set peak and off peak frequency.

In good time there will be issues with the northern line but not for some time yet.

When I was living in Blackrock a few years ago, my girlfriend went into Tara st station and asked about DARTs out to me. She was told there's one every two minutes. She got a bit upset when I spent five minutes laughing at her after she fell for this.

[Colm Donoghue]

IE will have to get the frequencies up on the 2 lines. Definitely every 5 minutes at peak.
average wait is 2.5 mins

Are the lines going to run Howth Heuston and Balbriggan Hazelhatch?
and diesel trians then serving Connolly, Balbrigga, and all stops to Connolly with the long distance dart going docklands, HJ and all stops to the brig? with a similar system southside.

[markpb]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

As far as we know Malahide won't be a terminus post 2015, Balbriggan will be

I wonder have IR given consideration to running short-hop trains between the 'old' termini for increased frequency, like a lot of other cities do. Perhaps outside the commuter times they could run every second train to Maynooth and every other to Balbriggan (and similarly for the other termini).

There probably won't be the demand (or at least IR will claim there isn't enough demand) for many trains the full length of the line but a shorter, more frequent city service might be more popular.

[ofjames]

As a commuter who has suffered the absolutely dreadful service on the maynooth line for all too long, the moans and groans of the north-south travellers on the DART line really make me laugh. You dont know how well you've had it!

For christ sake, up until 3 - 4 years ago, our commuter service involved being stuffed into the toilets and guards van of ramshackle old intercity's each morning!

Dont let your small laziness (RE: interchange) ruin it for the rest of us!

This project will be the best value 1.3 billion the govt has ever spent...Cant wait

PS: How are IR proposing to deal with the multiple level-crossings on the two 'new' dart lines? If these roads are to remain useable in practice, surely this increased frequency can only be dealt with be replacing these crossings with road bridges?