CDE Cork Dublin Express train to enter service

[ACustomer]

Imagine if SIPTU and allied trades were around at the start of the railway age. We would still have stagecoaches to Cork, with changes of horses at Naas, KIldare, .....

[Mark Gleeson]

The guards tried this last time in 1987, they went looking for 12.5% increase, why because the then new MK3 coaches had automatic doors, apparently having central and electrically verified door locking makes the job more difficult at the same time they gave out about new tail lights (legal requirement for over a century) and having to carry a walkie talkie, all of which were imposed by the railway inspectorate. There was even talk of looking for money for the track circuit bar which is only used following a derailment or accident.

Needless to say the claim was thrown out

Problem is even reasonable improvements which make the workers life easier are contested. We don't know exactly what is going on but without question a equal level of blame goes to the unions and management.

[Kevin K Kelehan]

Still not resolved then

Time time run a book on operational entry date
Derek any suggested odds?

[GavinG]

At the end of the day we are the ones suffering again because IE and the feckin unions couldn't sit down and work all this crap out months ago. Im really and truly sick and tired of both of them.
If this keeps up every change that is made on the railways forever more will be delayed by months. We need the transport minister (whoever they are) to give the unions and IE a kick up the arse to get these issues resolved early in the process because its obvious if they are left to their own devices they cant organise a pint in a pub!!!

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Kevin K Kelehan

Still not resolved then

Time time run a book on operational entry date
Derek any suggested odds?

Im giving evens on end of May. A full 6 months after expected entry. And then it will only be in service trials. IE continue to deny, but the evidence is there in the public domain. Im compiling all similar situations at the moment. (Ive already mentioned DART to Greystones in another post. Add to that the attempt to get more cash for driving longer DARTs.)

Disaster.

[Derek Wheeler]

The "pay-off" offered to guards was only equal to 3 years wages. As many of them are no-where near retirement age, they've decided to stay. Problem.

Some are accepting. But its a mess.

All new developments on the IE network will have to be cleared by unions. Ive used the word disaster before and I'll use it again.

Disaster.

[GavinG]

Disaster - Dam right !!

[MrX]

There are definitely 4 full sets.

On the way up from Cork there were two sitting at Limerick Junction and a further two (with lights on at the sides) at Inchicore.

The only other explanation that I can come up with for the late launch is that they're waiting to have enough sets available to launch a full Cork-Dublin 2-hourly service. At least that way they'd have a good high impact PR launch as everyone taking the cork-dublin service would be on one of the new trains.

Would 4 sets be sufficient to do that? They'd still have MK3 back up should the need arrise.

Then gradually ramp the service up as the rest of the fleet arrives.

How many sets are they getting in total?

[Kevin K Kelehan]

Derek,

you are right this is an issue that needs to be resolved given the move towards guard free trains; the difference between a guard and a train manager has never been clear to me.

Looking at Pendolinos the front & back carriages have a storage area which can be used much in the same way as a guards van i.e. for newspapers or bikes. Are these units any different?

[Mark Gleeson]

There are 8 sets in total, plus 3 spare standard class coaches, to make up 7 8 coach sets plus one spare set. Currently the fleet is formed in 4 9 coach sets, but I think 5 sets are here. They need 5 to operate the current timetable but they could do it with 4 if pushed. It would be a very brave manager to do a overnight change thats not on the cards

Things are going to reach a critical point in the next few weeks as the existing MK3 fleet is stretched there are no spares its only a matter of time before a set reaches overhaul mileage. The passenger experience has degraded over the last few months. The second a CDE set enters service a MK3 set will be sent to Inchicore to get overhauled, it won't be until several CDE sets appear will a cascade start.

Guard free trains are common place already, the drivers have had no problem with it, ok they do get a payment for doing so. No one is quite clear on train managers but it goes like this

Train manager is the most senior staff member on the train
Driver is in charge of train, train manager in charge of passengers
Train manager gives the signal to get the train moving
Still unsure to if the driver uses the door controls but they are provided

[comcor]

The CDE sets have lower passenger capacity than the Mark III sets, so presumably, they won't be entirely introduced until the service is ready to go hourly.

Introducing the new sets and then having customers complaining about more people than ever having to stand would not be good PR for their introduction.

[Mark Gleeson]

Fixed that problem as IE have now set the sets up as 9 coach sets, which leaves the difference in seats to about 20, the upside is the ability to properly carry wheelchair passengers. I've spotted a few Cork trains running as only 8 coach sets recently as IE are having trouble keeping enough coaches available.

CDE coaches will go into service once the union issue is solved, which in turn will mean extra coaches on other services. I wouldn't be surprised if an odd extra train appears in the interim

You can already book seats on all Dublin Cork services so you don't have to stand (moved following discussion on seat reservations to new thread)

[Mark Gleeson]

Ok finally it looks like its going to happen

A while back we where told mid May 2006 and thats next Monday

The following has been formally confirmed to Platform 11

The first service will be A202 9:00 Dublin Cork
The MK3 set normally used will be withdrawn for overhaul once the CDE set is in service
No cascade of MK3 rolling stock will take place until several CDE sets are in place

If it happens we will be there if not I get an extra hour in bed

[ACustomer]

Assuming May 15th (at last) is a "go", has the Train Manager issue been solved, or is there a fudge with Guards being deployed in traditional mode pending Labour Court negotiations, etc, and if so will there be strike blackmail later?

[sean]

Good question.

[Mark Gleeson]

We don't know but information is coming in which matches the conditions we expect

Don't anyone get out of bed early we will have full report and photos by about 1pm

[James Shields]

Hmmm, where's the first stop? And when's the first train back from that stop? Could be tempting to take a jaunt.

[Mark Gleeson]

Kildare is first stop, I'll be going as far as Thurles (I can justify that and I can back in Dublin for lunch)

I know the line to Kildare well including all the bumps but the key is to see how it behaves when the foot goes down and it gets to 90mph and that means beyond Kildare

We have not confirmed this date but I'm a lot more confident than before

[Mark Gleeson]

I can now confirm that IE have withdrawn standard class seat booking from the 9:00 to Cork on the 15th, its available this week but not next week which indicates that a non MK3 set may operate the service

[James Shields]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

I can now confirm that IE have withdrawn standard class seat booking from the 9:00 to Cork on the 15th, its available this week but not next week which indicates that a non MK3 set may operate the service

So you'll just have to book yourself premium seats. :-)