Figures/messing around with timetables

[doherty jack]

mark , sorry ye cant take my word i will , take a picture next time no bother

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

never said you were.

and you are right in that the current, low, patronage is heading towards dublin, but thats because the chance of the branch actually getting the most out of itself has been lost with the M7 opening all the way to Limerick. I have long said that what needs to be done in the morning is to have a train from Ballybrophy to Limerick which will arrive there at around 8.30. The only reason this was not done was down to staffing organisation. With portlaoise depot this is gone. It doesnt mean that the potential is in the dublin direction. It plainly isnt, there is a train getting into dublin for 8.30-ish (in fact it has been in that early and held up for being so) and the numbers using it are in the region of, lets be charitable, 6.

The 0505 from Limerick service, like all the other 05xx services from various locations do little or no business until they get close to Dublin. While an 0830 arrival might be attractive, a departure in the early hours of the morning is not. For this service to be in any way attractive it needs to have a later departure and a significantly shorter journey time. It should run as an express from Ballybrophy serving at most Portlaoise and Portarlington.

The only long term future for the Nenagh line requires at least the restoration of the previous 70 mph speed restriction, a direct curve at Ballybrophy and a decent frequency. The bulk of the line's potential is undoubtedly to Dublin - why would this route be different to almost any other in the country ? Given a decent journey time and a useful timetable, I am sure there is also some potential for local traffic into Limerick, but this would almost certainly be secondary in volume and importance to traffic to Dublin.

For the immediate future the best that can be hoped for is that the line can be sustained until the economic tide turns and there is again an appetite for investment in rail transport infrastructure.

The next few years will be extremely challenging for the railway generally and it is more than possible that there will be little or no investment in the system, let alone game changing investment in the Nenagh line.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by doherty jack

thomas , i am a regular user of the the section between roscrea and ballybrophy , every week usually lately more , I have NEVER been on the 6:20pm sevice from ballybrophy with less than 15 , i count everytime , i dont know if your only counting the front carrige ? or what way your counting but their was less than 15 . . . 7:25pm was never a ghost train , im in Roscrea regularlly as i live nearby and i have never seen any service run empty , except 8 weeks ago 17:05 ran empty!

numbers fall in september and october , but thats nationwide !

no i have been counting both carraiges. i am counting even myself.

odd you say that, as soon as i go back, the figures will be down again.

dont forget to include the GAA special, its like the eucharistic congress special.

i have been on the late train with as few as two others, counting both coaches.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

The 0505 from Limerick service, like all the other 05xx services from various locations do little or no business until they get close to Dublin. While an 0830 arrival might be attractive, a departure in the early hours of the morning is not. For this service to be in any way attractive it needs to have a later departure and a significantly shorter journey time. It should run as an express from Ballybrophy serving at most Portlaoise and Portarlington.

the other early morning services are long standing, the nenagh one is not, and it competes directly (and fails accordingly) with a parellell service from Thurles and Templemore which is used a lot more. I admit that i cant provide up to date figures on the early temeplemore services, as i hvae been getting the roscrea one instead, but up till this year there are regularly 12 getting on at temeplmore on each of the two early trains. Thats some difference to a total of four on the entire branchline, which is cheaper, and on which the season ticket prices are the same as on the mainline, so there should be no transfer problems.

The 0505 is only making any money because it stops from Newbridge inwards. Very few get on in Portlaoise and Monesterevin. Whilst I once enjoyed the privilage of being on an express from BB to dublin, it was lonely. Having an express train for perhaps 20 or 30 people is a total waste of resources. Saying that "if only it ran express from ballybrophy it would be full from limerick" not only flies in the face to the reality on the ground, it ignores the fact that this train will always take over an hour from brophy, which means it will always be competing with the early services from thurles and templemore where there is a history of long distance commuting to dublin, of which there isnt on the branch line.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

The only long term future for the Nenagh line requires at least the restoration of the previous 70 mph speed restriction, a direct curve at Ballybrophy and a decent frequency. The bulk of the line's potential is undoubtedly to Dublin - why would this route be different to almost any other in the country ? Given a decent journey time and a useful timetable, I am sure there is also some potential for local traffic into Limerick, but this would almost certainly be secondary in volume and importance to traffic to Dublin.

For the immediate future the best that can be hoped for is that the line can be sustained until the economic tide turns and there is again an appetite for investment in rail transport infrastructure.

The next few years will be extremely challenging for the railway generally and it is more than possible that there will be little or no investment in the system, let alone game changing investment in the Nenagh line.

the only part i do not agree with you here is that the potential is to dublin. you have said it yourself, there is only a small number of commuters this far out. those who do commute from Thurles and Templemore (we surveyed them in the Templemore Rail Users Group) chose jobs in dublin which allowed them to use the train, or moved to the towns as they were next to be developed as dormer towns.

the latter aspect is one which did not materialise in the towns on the branch line - because there was no service. Now, given the current economic circumstances we find ourselves in, that is not going to change soon. As someone who works in Roscrea and Nenagh I can tell you that the potental for a commuter service to limerick, which gets in at 8.30 ish starting from Brophy, is (or was) a real one. Limerick is only one hour away and is a lot easier to access than dublin, and if the track was developed and services were developed, a functioning branch shuttle service would solve all these problems, you can have a shuttle which connects to the brophy trains, you can have a shuttle that gets people into limerick and back in time for work and whatever. you can lay on specials for the rugby matches or gaa matches in limerick.

NRP rep told me of an idea to close the branch for one year to put into place the infrastructure you suggest. Personally, i have only one problem with that, which is the over-riding temptation it will give the DoT to close it permanently. The gas thing is that the only posters on this thread who use the line all see that it has potential. If only we would drop the fantasy island elements and use the damn thing as a branch line to its potential and sell it as that then things would be a lot easier.