[article] Proposal to bring train journey times between cities below two hours

[Thomas Ralph]

Cork to Mallow already happens in 23 minutes without any real intervention, and Mallow to Limerick Junction is generally not much over the half-hour as long as it doesn't stop in Charleville. I suspect the timetables may be padded.

The main issue with Dublin to Cork in anything less than 2h35m is platform capacity at Cork.

[ACustomer]

"The main issue with Dublin to Cork in anything less than 2h35m is platform capacity at Cork". Surely that can be overcome by the use of the departure platform for actual departures.

[Thomas Ralph]

The thing is, if you have two intercity trains parked up in platforms 4 and 5, where are you going to put your Mallow commuter services?

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

Cork to Mallow already happens in 23 minutes without any real intervention, and Mallow to Limerick Junction is generally not much over the half-hour as long as it doesn't stop in Charleville. I suspect the timetables may be padded.

The main issue with Dublin to Cork in anything less than 2h35m is platform capacity at Cork.

Are there not two platforms in Cork serving the mainline ?

If the existing Dublin and Cork departure times were maintained and the journey time reduced to 2hrs-20 minutes there would never be more than two Dublin services in Cork station at any one time and then only for ten minutes every hour. Arranging the schedule so that trains in either direction meet at Limerick Junction and Mallow affords maximum advantage in terms of connections although the downside of passengers having to transfer to connecting trains via footbridge, lift or subway mightn't be universally welcomed.

An alternative approach in the event of a journey time reduction between Dublin and Cork to 2hrs-20 min would be to run the existing service pattern with six rather than seven sets with consequent crew and equipment savings.

[dowlingm]

Was any thought ever given to putting a platform on the south side of the Kent shed on the bypass track?

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

The thing is, if you have two intercity trains parked up in platforms 4 and 5, where are you going to put your Mallow commuter services?

There are very few dedicated Cork-Mallow/Tralee services (2 morning, 3 evening, 1 night outbound and 5 morning, 3 evening in the opposite direction) so they won't interfere that much. There appears to be no Cobh-Mallow through services left.

[Inniskeen]

There was a celtic tiger era plan for a major re-development of the station. The main entrance would face Horgans Quay, the concourse would be the same size as Heuston and there would be 4 through platforms. Not likely to happen in the immediate future and hardly justified by current traffic patterns.

[Thomas Ralph]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

Are there not two platforms in Cork serving the mainline ?

If the existing Dublin and Cork departure times were maintained and the journey time reduced to 2hrs-20 minutes there would never be more than two Dublin services in Cork station at any one time and then only for ten minutes every hour. Arranging the schedule so that trains in either direction meet at Limerick Junction and Mallow affords maximum advantage in terms of connections although the downside of passengers having to transfer to connecting trains via footbridge, lift or subway mightn't be universally welcomed.

I challenge anyone to deboard, clean, and reboard a Mk4 in ten minutes. Even skip the cleaning if you restore the onboard cleaner. Really eight, since gates close two minutes before train departure. And that leaves absolutely no slack in the event of delays.

[ccos]

What happened to the proposed stations at the north end of the tunnel and Blarney?

[ACustomer]

The developers who were supposed to part-finance these stations probably went bust. In the case of Blarney the housing development nnever happened (and is unlikely to happen for a very long time).

Otherwise Cork would have had a Kishogue on its hands.

[Mark Gleeson]

If you shift Cork departures to xx:00 it works and you still have one platform free if you can do the journey in 2:20 or better. The best we can expect currently is 2:35-2:25 with 3/4 stops

Platform 5 in Cork is to be avoided as there is an issue with stepping distances on Mk4/ICR stock. Cork as it stands couldn't cope with a Mk4 arriving and departing at the same time, the concourse couldn't cope. Cork is also a real pain if you need to send the Mk4 set over the shed as it involves a lot of back and forward.

Long term there is goal of a commuter service Cork Mallow with extra stations etc, can't really see it all working unless there is a major rebuild of the station

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

I challenge anyone to deboard, clean, and reboard a Mk4 in ten minutes. Even skip the cleaning if you restore the onboard cleaner. Really eight, since gates close two minutes before train departure. And that leaves absolutely no slack in the event of delays.

Maintaining the existing service pattern with a journey time of 2hrs-20mins from Dublin to Cork & v.v. would mean a turn-around in Cork of 70 minutes not 10 minutes, hence both through platforms occupied for 10 minutes every hour.

Reducing journey time to 2hrs-20mins and maintaining a turnaround time of 40 minutes at each end would mean trains depart both Cork & Dublin at the same time. An hourly frequency in either direction would require only six sets rather than seven, a major productivity spin-off. The disadvantage of having trains leaving each end at the same time would be that there would be a 30 minute gap between up and down services at both Mallow and Limerick Junction.

[comcor]

Back in the days of the Mark III, the entire set would be taken off the platform in Kent Station for cleaning, fueling, water top-up. Now it's just the locomotive. Although that set up may have just been caused by using platform 5 for departures.

I'd also stress that the proposal assumes the construction of at least one new platform at Limerick Junction, so there would have to be some capital investment. That might mean some spending at Kent Station too. The idea is that operating efficiencies and improved revenue through better service would justify it. There is still some capital budget going round government and things that can reduce ongoing deficits can find it easiest to get funding.

Once it was at 2:20, further improvements could be aimed for, however, there are good reasons for aiming for a reliable 30 minutes Mallow-Limerick Junction, so time savings would be best sought south of Mallow and east of Limerick Junction. Plus, between InterCities/Commuter into Dublin and Commuter into Cork, these are the areas where most people would benefit from time savings.

[comcor]

Interestingly, the 06:15 Cork-Dublin this morning was 10 minutes late into Mallow after crawling the whole way for no obvious reason. It then managed to do Mallow-Limerick Junction in 28 minutes, to get pretty much back on time.

So, the 30 minutes between Mallow and Limerick Junction is easily doable on present track with a small bit to spare.

So, the only real reason getting both the up and down train in Limerick Junction at the same time can't happen is the lack of a Cork-bound platform.

[Thomas Ralph]

The former platform 3 (down end of platform 1 below the crossover) would fit the bill, although I think it's too short for a mk4 set.

[ACustomer]

The former Platform 3 (assuming I am thinking about the same place as you) is now part of a vastly extended car park.

[Thomas Ralph]

I think that's platform 4, or the Waterford Bay in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Li..._diagram.pn g . I'm thinking of the through platform opposite the Waterford bay.

[ACustomer]

Not only is the Waterford Bay gone, but the old Up Main platform is gone as well. Car parking. Platforms 3 and 4 are no more.

[Mark Gleeson]

Doesn't matter its the down side that needs the platform and there never was one there before

[karlr42]

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