[Article] Cullen signs off on Ennis Athenry - Page 3

Jister · 02-10-2006, 20:45

What existing freight travels Limerick-Waterford at the moment? When Ennis-Athenry is open what existing freight will use the route? When Tuam-Athenry is opened what potential freight will use the route

I presume the answer to all three questions is nothing, but the freight potential is being touted as a justification in most of the media articles.

Only in about 15 years if Tuam-Claremorris gets reopened will the line see freight, but in 15 years whatever freight is currently on the tracks will probably be gone anyway.

ccos · 02-10-2006, 20:51

Quote:

What existing freight travels Limerick-Waterford at the moment? When Ennis-Athenry is open what existing freight will use the route? When Tuam-Athenry is opened what potential freight will use the route

I presume the answer to all three questions is nothing, but the freight potential is being touted as a justification in most of the media articles.

Only in about 15 years if Tuam-Claremorris gets reopened will the line see freight, but in 15 years whatever freight is currently on the tracks will probably be gone anyway.

Who cares about freight or about north of tuam anyway

(People in anoraks don't count)

Jister · 02-10-2006, 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccos

Who cares about freight or about north of tuam anyway

(People in anoraks don't count)

Exactly, what kind of freight can we expect (nothing IMO) so why is it being touted as potential business if it will be nonexistant.

Don't agree about north of tuam, I think it will link Westport, Ballina and Castlebar quite nicely to the rest of the southern network, assuming the right type of development takes place over the next 10 years

Thomas J Stamp · 02-10-2006, 22:17

Quote:

P11 has already said it will represent the unfortunate passengers on this route, so isn't it the best time to fight their corner now during what will be a long planning process and make sure that another rail route isn't a disaster from birth.

As with the LUAS we will be making a submission into the Planning Process.

Quote:

Exactly, what kind of freight can we expect

Proof will be in the eating, as they say!!

Quote:

assuming the right type of development takes place over the next 10 years

It wont.

Nigel Fitzgricer · 02-10-2006, 23:21

I took a drive down to Anthery the other day to have a look around. The line leading in from Limerick heads in the direction of Dublin and away from Galway. So that means the trains from Limerick will have to reverse there. Hardly a major issue, but it's also hardly "rail corridor" either - just a connecting branchline.

I would imagine a train driver doing a typical CIE sprint from one end of a railcar to another will add a fair bit of time to the "packed commuter trains"? Is it possible to flip the track around to face Galway and by-pass Athenry completely or come into Athenry from the east of the town?

Otherwise I suspect a direct Ennis to Dublin non connecting service via Athenry would make just as much a good reason to reopen this line as "packed commuter trains" from one-off land. Athenry track layout is a bit of a joke for either Limerick-Galway inter-city of regional "rapid transit".

comcor · 03-10-2006, 08:20

If the line is to have any future as an InterCity line, it can't stop at all these small stations.

Does the Cork-Dublin train stop in Blarney, Buttevant, Kilmallock or Dundrum?

There may be a case for opening any or all of those stations for a regional service, but it would just delay an InterCity train by too much to stop at them.

Given that Cork-Limerick-Galway already suffers from the Limerick Junction deviation and track with a much lower top speed, it would be a disaster to see it stopping at every little hamlet between Ennis and Galway.

colmoc · 03-10-2006, 09:30

would cork Limerick Galway also need a significant reversal at Limerick station. Killarney suffers this problem adding a good five to ten mins to the journey so if cork - limerick - Galway had to do it in athenry and limerick it would make a mess of the journey times????????

Mark Gleeson · 03-10-2006, 09:53

Cork Galway requires 2 reversals, one at Athenry and one at Limerick, the closed direct route via Patrickswell requires three since the direct curve in Limerick is built on

Going via Limerick junction has some benfits, you pass Knocklong and Kilmallock but also a Cork Galway train would offer a connection to/from a Dublin service (in both directions in fact) and don't forget that Tipperary town is 3 miles from Limerick Junction, Tipperary Racecourse is actually at Limerick Junction

Its also a 100mph line from Charleville to Limerick Junction

Mark · 03-10-2006, 10:22

It would probably make more sense to run Galway - Ennis - Limerick - Limierick Junction the wouldnt it?

Rather than sending a haft empty commuter train to Cork.. Offers connection to Dublin - Cork and all in between.

Mark Gleeson · 03-10-2006, 10:46

The maths show that Dublin Cork trains will pass at the Junction

Once they build the second platform there will be a perfect interchange Swiss style, Galway Limerick Junc arrives, 10 minutes later a pair of Dublin Cork trains arrive and depart, 10 minutes later the Galway train leaves

Stick a shuttle on from Tipperary town or Clonmel and you finally create a purpose for Limerick Junction

Colm Donoghue · 03-10-2006, 16:46

How long since Middleton was at this stage?

Jister · 13-10-2006, 09:11

A railway station for Moyross?

The line is close to LIT and it would have excellent potential but will people walk through Moyross to the college??

"Infrastructural changes will also be needed which will include a new road into Moyross to connect up with a link road and will take away the cul-de-sac that is Moyross. It will also include a rail station to the existing Limerick-Ennis line which runs behind the community centre. We believe in this plan and will be asking the Government to look at favourable tax status to make it happen,”he said.

http://www.limerickpost.ie/dailynews...gory=Daily-Thu

ACustomer · 13-10-2006, 11:24

Given that the proposed road will end the cul-de-sac status of Moyross (which will still be a dead end), the best rail solution should be a re-inforced tunnel under Moyross.

Mark · 13-10-2006, 11:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jister

The line is close to LIT and it would have excellent potential but will people walk through Moyross to the college??

No, I attended LIT and the answer is no. Sure the bus is outside and even still all students live nearby or in town. Town is only 20 mins walk and Con Colbert station also suffers from Heustonesque Outius Townis syndrome

Jister · 13-10-2006, 12:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

No, I attended LIT and the answer is no. Sure the bus is outside and even still all students live nearby or in town. Town is only 20 mins walk and Con Colbert station also suffers from Heustonesque Outius Townis syndrome

I was thinking of students commuting down from Ennis or travelling home to Ennis, Galway and dare we say Sligo

for the weekend.

To be honest though a station in Moyross will put everybody else off using the line, unless its completely levelled and redeveloped as a middle class area.

CSL · 13-10-2006, 15:18

Broombridge MKII sounds like. Doesn't put people off on other stations though.

Mark · 13-10-2006, 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jister

I was thinking of students commuting down from Ennis or travelling home to Ennis, Galway and dare we say Sligo

for the weekend.

They all get coaches from outside the college. Only rich students get the train.

BlahDeBlah · 08-11-2006, 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

...“Announcement of WRC reopening “...
While Platform 11 is not supportive of the short-term reopening of this route, Communications and Media Officer, Derek Wheeler said,” we accept that current Government policy is committed to it.

What IS Platform 11 supportive of? Instead of criticising the re-opening of the Victorian-era rail service from Ennis to Athenry with proposed stops at tiny villages of Craughwell and Ardrahan, why don't Platform 11 lobby for what is actually needed...

...which is IMHO...

...building a 21st century intercity service between Galway, Limerick and Cork (that routes DIRECTLY South after Oranmore, towards Clarinbridge and not just using existing tracks all the way out to Athenry). With a commuter service at commuter towns of Oranmore, Clarinbridge and Gort to ease the awful traffic congestion to the East and South-East of Galway. Yes a direct, intercity rail service between the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th most populus cities of Ireland.

Galway City Devt Plan describes a new 'town' of Ardaun to the East of Galway, which would be well serviced by a commuter stop at Oranmore - and Oranmore is already populated enough to warrant a commuter rail service today. Gort is certainly a large commuter town now - just check out the bus service at commuter times morning and evening.

Lobbying for a service from times gone by is pure nostalgia (sorry WestOnTrack). Simply criticising it's resurrection, rather than lobbying for what's truly needed is just sitting on the sidelines with passive observations - rather than driving the agenda of promoting the needs of the country's rail users (sorry Platform 11).

TomB · 08-11-2006, 19:53

Hi BlahDeBlah, and a very warm welcome to the board.

Obviously the Platform 11 committee are well able to speak for themselves and don't need me to stand up for them, but let me offer a few comments:

Transport 21 has a large number of distinct public transport projects contained within the few pages given out at Dublin Castle a year ago. All of them are fairly complex projects with reasonably large budgets. To undertake a detailed economic and engineering critique of every project proposed would be possible but only if Derek, Thomas, Mark, Paul, Louise and Aidan weren't allowed out of doors until 2015.

Platform 11 have already published a (pre-T21) solid report on the potential for commuter rail in Galway, especially Oranmore, available at http://www.platform11.org/reports (think that particular report might be members only though), which I certainly feel had an influence on T21 plans.

For what it's worth, I agree with much of what you say. Reinstating a line to Limerick-Waterford standards would be a disaster, and the only sensible solution is a railway which beats the car by at least 30% of the journey time. That ain't going to happen unless serious investment is put into the line, and silly plans to put stations in hamlets reversed. Although I'm not convinced of the merits of a deviation via Clarinbridge unless Galway Co Co show significantly higher commitments to good planning practice than they do at the moment.

You've obviously taken some time to investigate some of the issues associated with commuting south of Galway. Why not offer to do some work in fleshing out what you've just described into a coherent, justified plan which could form part of the submission that Thomas Stamp has already said would happen?

Again, a very warm welcome to you, and I would encourage you to join Platform 11 for just a tenner and make a difference

Mark Gleeson · 10-11-2006, 09:50

There has been up until very recently a total apathy to public transport in Limerick and Galway thankfully they have now twigged that they lost out badly in T21, we are in fairly regular contact with people out there who are interested in a real rail transport solution. Should point out P11 public meeting in Limerick 2 or 3 year ago had a dismal turnout.

We have worked out commuter rail networks for Galway and we have a draft one in Limerick, there has been positive feedback on both and indeed the Galway one went down very well at a critical point in time where discussions on Oranmore where ongoing. I must acknowledge Kevin Kelehan former Technical Officer efforts with respect Galway which made a big difference. Serious doubt remains as to whether the numbers are there to make it happen. That said people might be suprised at what might happen in Galway

You must appreciate the awkward position the WRC is, its a black hole for money and the bus will always win on journey time and it has priority over other seriously needed (and profitable) projects but it has turned into Knock airport part two, its still a very touchy subject even within Irish Rail there are senior people who support it and there are those who don't which includes the CEO.

We have always supported the provision of a service between Limerick and Galway as it makes sense, is relatively simple to do and provides a commuter service to Galway and Limerick the link actually is a bonus. North of Athenry has no case and that has been vindicated by the McCann report and even more so by the FOI version which highlights a clear case of watering down not to offend the local heads

End of the day once it is built who will be there to listen to and act on the complaints of the (very few) passengers, Platform 11 will be there and it will be a clear case of we told you so. No amount of action, meetings or so on will sort this, several years of arguing has not resolved it what is well clear is the primary motivation is one of political gain not one of serving the public

Service frequency Limerick Galway is rumoured to be 7 trains a day

02-10-2006, 23:21	#45
Nigel Fitzgricer Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 140	I took a drive down to Anthery the other day to have a look around. The line leading in from Limerick heads in the direction of Dublin and away from Galway. So that means the trains from Limerick will have to reverse there. Hardly a major issue, but it's also hardly "rail corridor" either - just a connecting branchline. I would imagine a train driver doing a typical CIE sprint from one end of a railcar to another will add a fair bit of time to the "packed commuter trains"? Is it possible to flip the track around to face Galway and by-pass Athenry completely or come into Athenry from the east of the town? Otherwise I suspect a direct Ennis to Dublin non connecting service via Athenry would make just as much a good reason to reopen this line as "packed commuter trains" from one-off land. Athenry track layout is a bit of a joke for either Limerick-Galway inter-city of regional "rapid transit". __________________ ************* Last edited by Nigel Fitzgricer : 02-10-2006 at 23:23.

10-11-2006, 09:50	#60
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	There has been up until very recently a total apathy to public transport in Limerick and Galway thankfully they have now twigged that they lost out badly in T21, we are in fairly regular contact with people out there who are interested in a real rail transport solution. Should point out P11 public meeting in Limerick 2 or 3 year ago had a dismal turnout. We have worked out commuter rail networks for Galway and we have a draft one in Limerick, there has been positive feedback on both and indeed the Galway one went down very well at a critical point in time where discussions on Oranmore where ongoing. I must acknowledge Kevin Kelehan former Technical Officer efforts with respect Galway which made a big difference. Serious doubt remains as to whether the numbers are there to make it happen. That said people might be suprised at what might happen in Galway You must appreciate the awkward position the WRC is, its a black hole for money and the bus will always win on journey time and it has priority over other seriously needed (and profitable) projects but it has turned into Knock airport part two, its still a very touchy subject even within Irish Rail there are senior people who support it and there are those who don't which includes the CEO. We have always supported the provision of a service between Limerick and Galway as it makes sense, is relatively simple to do and provides a commuter service to Galway and Limerick the link actually is a bonus. North of Athenry has no case and that has been vindicated by the McCann report and even more so by the FOI version which highlights a clear case of watering down not to offend the local heads End of the day once it is built who will be there to listen to and act on the complaints of the (very few) passengers, Platform 11 will be there and it will be a clear case of we told you so. No amount of action, meetings or so on will sort this, several years of arguing has not resolved it what is well clear is the primary motivation is one of political gain not one of serving the public Service frequency Limerick Galway is rumoured to be 7 trains a day Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 10-11-2006 at 09:53.

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02-10-2006, 20:45	#41
Jister Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 118	What existing freight travels Limerick-Waterford at the moment? When Ennis-Athenry is open what existing freight will use the route? When Tuam-Athenry is opened what potential freight will use the route I presume the answer to all three questions is nothing, but the freight potential is being touted as a justification in most of the media articles. Only in about 15 years if Tuam-Claremorris gets reopened will the line see freight, but in 15 years whatever freight is currently on the tracks will probably be gone anyway.

03-10-2006, 08:20	#46
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	If the line is to have any future as an InterCity line, it can't stop at all these small stations. Does the Cork-Dublin train stop in Blarney, Buttevant, Kilmallock or Dundrum? There may be a case for opening any or all of those stations for a regional service, but it would just delay an InterCity train by too much to stop at them. Given that Cork-Limerick-Galway already suffers from the Limerick Junction deviation and track with a much lower top speed, it would be a disaster to see it stopping at every little hamlet between Ennis and Galway.

03-10-2006, 09:30	#47
colmoc Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 140	would cork Limerick Galway also need a significant reversal at Limerick station. Killarney suffers this problem adding a good five to ten mins to the journey so if cork - limerick - Galway had to do it in athenry and limerick it would make a mess of the journey times????????

03-10-2006, 09:53	#48
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Cork Galway requires 2 reversals, one at Athenry and one at Limerick, the closed direct route via Patrickswell requires three since the direct curve in Limerick is built on Going via Limerick junction has some benfits, you pass Knocklong and Kilmallock but also a Cork Galway train would offer a connection to/from a Dublin service (in both directions in fact) and don't forget that Tipperary town is 3 miles from Limerick Junction, Tipperary Racecourse is actually at Limerick Junction Its also a 100mph line from Charleville to Limerick Junction

03-10-2006, 10:22	#49
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern line Posts: 1,311	It would probably make more sense to run Galway - Ennis - Limerick - Limierick Junction the wouldnt it? Rather than sending a haft empty commuter train to Cork.. Offers connection to Dublin - Cork and all in between.

03-10-2006, 10:46	#50
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The maths show that Dublin Cork trains will pass at the Junction Once they build the second platform there will be a perfect interchange Swiss style, Galway Limerick Junc arrives, 10 minutes later a pair of Dublin Cork trains arrive and depart, 10 minutes later the Galway train leaves Stick a shuttle on from Tipperary town or Clonmel and you finally create a purpose for Limerick Junction

03-10-2006, 16:46	#51
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	How long since Middleton was at this stage?

13-10-2006, 09:11	#52
Jister Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 118	A railway station for Moyross? The line is close to LIT and it would have excellent potential but will people walk through Moyross to the college?? "Infrastructural changes will also be needed which will include a new road into Moyross to connect up with a link road and will take away the cul-de-sac that is Moyross. It will also include a rail station to the existing Limerick-Ennis line which runs behind the community centre. We believe in this plan and will be asking the Government to look at favourable tax status to make it happen,”he said. http://www.limerickpost.ie/dailynews...gory=Daily-Thu

13-10-2006, 11:24	#53
ACustomer Really Regular Poster Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 767	Given that the proposed road will end the cul-de-sac status of Moyross (which will still be a dead end), the best rail solution should be a re-inforced tunnel under Moyross.

13-10-2006, 15:18	#56
CSL Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 378	Broombridge MKII sounds like. Doesn't put people off on other stations though.

08-11-2006, 19:53	#59
TomB Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Limerick Posts: 207	Hi BlahDeBlah, and a very warm welcome to the board. Obviously the Platform 11 committee are well able to speak for themselves and don't need me to stand up for them, but let me offer a few comments: Transport 21 has a large number of distinct public transport projects contained within the few pages given out at Dublin Castle a year ago. All of them are fairly complex projects with reasonably large budgets. To undertake a detailed economic and engineering critique of every project proposed would be possible but only if Derek, Thomas, Mark, Paul, Louise and Aidan weren't allowed out of doors until 2015. Platform 11 have already published a (pre-T21) solid report on the potential for commuter rail in Galway, especially Oranmore, available at http://www.platform11.org/reports (think that particular report might be members only though), which I certainly feel had an influence on T21 plans. For what it's worth, I agree with much of what you say. Reinstating a line to Limerick-Waterford standards would be a disaster, and the only sensible solution is a railway which beats the car by at least 30% of the journey time. That ain't going to happen unless serious investment is put into the line, and silly plans to put stations in hamlets reversed. Although I'm not convinced of the merits of a deviation via Clarinbridge unless Galway Co Co show significantly higher commitments to good planning practice than they do at the moment. You've obviously taken some time to investigate some of the issues associated with commuting south of Galway. Why not offer to do some work in fleshing out what you've just described into a coherent, justified plan which could form part of the submission that Thomas Stamp has already said would happen? Again, a very warm welcome to you, and I would encourage you to join Platform 11 for just a tenner and make a difference