Proposals for extra train services in North Tipperary...

[doherty jack]

the new service , altough a massive improvement , the departures from dublin arent geared towards commuters as the last train departs at 6pm

[Mark Gleeson]

A hell of a lot more people in Nenagh work in Limerick than they do in Dublin so that should be the priority

Providing a train which is curiously timed to suit get to/from Kildare street for a 9 to 5 isn't exactly great

[dowlingm]

Talk about moving the deckchairs on the Titanic...

[James Howard]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Providing a train which is curiously timed to suit get to/from Kildare street for a 9 to 5 isn't exactly great

In fairness, it has been a long time since a TD darkened a door in Kildare street at 9AM.

[brompton7]

I use the commuter service every day. I hold an annual ticket. Are the proposed 1605 and 1705 services the only services heading North in the evening? I just can't understand the logic here.

[comcor]

Do many people live in Nenagh and work in Limerick City Centre?

I've always had the impression that with the exception of Cork, not that many people work in Irish regional city centres as office parks are all on the outskirts.

I've always seen UL as a potentially greater source of traffic if there was a feeder bus to Castleconnell or even a new station built around the Annacotty area.

A few questions
- Why does the service have to be at 5.05? Could it not be an hour later and connect with later services on the Cork-Dublin line? Why is the existing slot no longer possible?

- Would this add a Ballybrophy stop to the 18:00 Dublin-Cork? This is already one of the most overcrowded InterCity services leaving Dublin.

- Has there ever been a study done that compared the effects of increasing frequency relative to speed improvements on a rail line?

[Inniskeen]

Bit confused by your question. Are you talking about the morning service from the Limerick direction (there is a second train at 0625) or the evening service from Dublin (there is a second train at 1800).

As regards the additional stop on the 1800 to Cork, I would have thought the 1700 to Cork was the busier service and I have never really had difficulty getting a seat on that or indeed the 1705 to Tralee which normally has at least 100 spare seats available.

Yes numerous studies have been done - the figure I have often heard quoted is that a 1% reduction in journey time equates to a 1% increase in patronage.

The timetable quoted seems to be fairly cleverly thought out. The use of non-stop services from Heuston to Ballybrophy will compensate to some degree for the very slow running between Ballybrophy and Nenagh. There also appears to be a ten minute acceleration between Limerick and Nenagh in both directions which aids scheduling.

Restoration of the general 70mph (currently 50 mph) speed limit between Killonan and Nenagh should be possible given that the line has been comprehensively renewed, although this doesn't seem to be on the agenda at present. Probably, of more signifigance and relatively easily achievable would be an increase from 30 mph to 40 mph between Ballybrophy and Nenagh, a move which would save 15 minutes to Nenagh.

In fact it is interesting that adding together the journey time from Dublin to depart Ballybrophy (achievable in 60 minutes), Ballybrophy to Nenagh (approx 45 minutes at 40 mph) and Nenagh to Limerick (potentially 45 minutes at current speed limits) yields a journry time of 2hours-30 minutes, slower than via the Junction, but in many instances by no more than 5 - 10 minutes !

Moving into the realms of the possible rather than the probable, assuming a Nenagh-Ballybrophy line upgrade and a direct curve at Ballybrophy, it would be possible to take advantage of the shorter mileage anf deliver direct Limerick to Dublin services via Nenagh in about 1hour 50 minutes. If this experiment is successful, such an outcome might just be achievable in the longer term.

Maybe Ballybrophy to Limerick isn't doomer after all. Time will tell.

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by comcor

A few questions
- Why does the service have to be at 5.05? Could it not be an hour later and connect with later services on the Cork-Dublin line? Why is the existing slot no longer possible?

Here's a guess - moving the first service on the line earlier has done a number on staffing and therefore they have to knock off earlier to compensate?

[Inniskeen]

Sorry it appears I misinterpreted the question.

It would not be possible to run the existing evening service to Nenagh as it would conflict with the connection from Ballybrophy off the 1705 from Dublin. The 1745 from Limerick could run to Birdhill subject to their being a driver and set available. Indeed the 1745 could be defered to 1805 to give services from Limerick to Birdhill at 1605, 1705 and 1805.

[doherty jack]

it came up in one of our meetings that a proposed platform at annacotty adjecent to the level crossing , to serve the college with a shuutle bus .


also a later train to replace to 5.05 cant be put on because the 5.05pm from limerick will cross the 18.25pm to limerick at Roscrea at 18.40pm ! unless they run a 17.20pm and 18.20pm from Limercik , but once they get to bally there might not be connections!!

[Mark Gleeson]

Its not helped by the fact Birdhill only as one usable platform

Doing the numbers, number from Nenagh line to Dublin in pm - low. Number from Limerick to Nenagh and Dublin to Nenagh possibly double digit, so what if the evening train from Limerick doesn't make a great connection?

[doherty jack]

its pointless if it doesnt make a connection at ballybrophy , if people know the about service , it will run empty from nenagh - ballybrophy just like the current evening service where there is a 40min wait at Ballybrophy! people will get on at nenagh , clough ,roscrea for a service to dublin!

[Mark Gleeson]

But they won't at 6pm, 6am maybe

[doherty jack]

if there is a service , and people know about it , they will use it!! but connections at ballybrophy are essinatial , there is no point for it just running to bally which is in the middle of no where! and back , pointless

at roscrea at the evening train when they cross only one will serve the platform 1 , due to no platform footbridge 18.25 to limerick will not service Roscrea !!

[Mark Gleeson]

If IE go with 17:05, they lose every single potential commuter from Nenagh to Limerick by rail and thats the lines biggest potential market

Rail is good at two things, short distance commuters and long distance. Regional services (Nenagh Dublin is clearly that) are a nightmare

[doherty jack]

they really have to change this timetable defindailly the evening services fromlimerick , referr them to 17.2o and 18.2opm thats the only way , there is a huge market waiting! but the service to dublin and from dublin provide the most people travelling on train daily ... the dublin services will be used , without a doubt .

another idea would be to divert the 17.25pm to limerick via nenagh cross them at roscrea , so day trippers that went up to dublin can get an early train home! then cross the 18.20pm from limerick at birdhill with the 17.25pm

[Mark Gleeson]

But platform 2 is not available to passengers at Birdhill

[doherty jack]

birdhill wouldnt really matter , but with these services they would be important to the area , so they should cross at nenagh that would work with to timetable also , just push them into the sidings at nenagh and let the 17.25pm run stright through , then push the 18.2o to the platform at run it to roscrea to cross the service coming back from bally !!

[Mark Gleeson]

Can't do that, as you would have to wait for ages before being able to proceed, its not doable

So what could be done is for the Ballybrophy Limerick train to skip Birdhill, or we play a game with Irish Rail to reinstate the platform.

[doherty jack]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Can't do that, as you would have to wait for ages before being able to proceed, its not doable

So what could be done is for the Ballybrophy Limerick train to skip Birdhill, or we play a game with Irish Rail to reinstate the platform.

all we need is a footbridge at roascrea and possibliy birdhill but as the the timetable which is going to come into place on the 5th march , trains are booked to cross at roscrea so we need a footbridge first!.. it would be possible cross trains nenagh as the signalling is altered , at if on time the 17.25pm would be in nenagh at 19.25pm and the 18.20pm would arrive at 19.05 so it should be deferred 18.30pm arriving at 19.i5 .. pull into the siding at nenagh let the 17.25pm go through and bobs your uncle!!