Dublin Bus says new LUAS line could hamper services

[philip]

Didn't mean to sound so sharp there thosj, but you know what I mean. They live in a city. Cities are noisy. Their streets are plenty wide for buses and they are public highways. If an alternative can be found, grand, but I'm thinking post T21 when the metro may well run north into Drumcondra then swing west over to Ballymun, leaving a gap up the N1 that can be filled (as in Munich) by buses running down the N1 as far as Drumcondra station(s) before turning back and heading north again. In this environment I can't see too many other satisfactory locations.

[Thomas J Stamp]

I know exactly so i didnt take any offence. Let's face it, money solves a lot of problems people would have with dirty buses sitting outside their homes.

I've already said on another thread what i think should be put into Drumcondra regarding the midland line railstation Drumcondra Railstation/Metro and it is very simple. In fact last night I was thinking about how if they simply clone Louisa Bridge then hey presto - there's your midland line station and it could be either end of Withworth Road. There is a really good potential here for a genuine inter-mode interchange bus/rail X 2/Metro and i feel that we would get a lot of Kudo's for doing a real technical proposal on it.

And before Mark says it, I know the RPA are only doing allignments and not the infrstructure but the point is that if the alignment goes to Botanic underneath Withworth then it's over and I think it should be advocated that the metro should go to Drumcondra station.

Anyway....... had to look at the top of the screen to remind myself what this thread is about!

If the LUAS hampers Dublin Bus services then it is their own damned fault. If we can come up with these ideas I cant see how BAC cant!

[philip]

Cheers thos,
Yes, we have deviated somewhat! I personally believe BAC should be allowed to access the Luas lines and stops the same as buses do in Munich (same company however, the Muenchenerverkehsgesellschaft), certainly in the interim as rail & Luas is extended but not enough to transform the BAC network into a pure feeder one (that will never actually happen of course as there will always be holes in the radial rail network that QBCs must fill).

[Colm Donoghue]

Originally Posted by philip

Click here, northbound along Drumcondra Rd, left onto Whitworth Rd, right onto St Patrick's Rd, right onto St Anne's Rd then right again back onto Drumcondra Rd southbound. And there's pace beside the station to drive piles to retain the embankment before removing that mound of earth, providing space for something like Muenchener Freiheit (pictured above) if needs be but it'd work fine wihout that.

Philip,
I'd go the opposite way, anti clockwise, St Annes Rd, left onto St. Patricks Rd, then left onto Withworth road.
Drumcondra road has a new median now, and the right turn into town would be easier from Whitworth road, where the lights are already.

The busses would stop that bit further from the station doors, is the down side. And passengers have to cross a road instead of dismounting on the station side.

[philip]

Originally Posted by colmd

Philip,
I'd go the opposite way, anti clockwise, St Annes Rd, left onto St. Patricks Rd, then left onto Withworth road.
Drumcondra road has a new median now, and the right turn into town would be easier from Whitworth road, where the lights are already.

The busses would stop that bit further from the station doors, is the down side. And passengers have to cross a road instead of dismounting on the station side.

Colm, you're absolutley right in the context of literally zero spend, though if we spent a few quid we could have a really cool interchange there forever. It might even be feasible to put in low level noise barriers between the buses and the houses on St Anne's Rd. Obviously we could also be looking at more hydrogen buses which make no appreciable engine noise and are running right across Europe today.

[Thomas J Stamp]

I'd go the opposite way, anti clockwise, St Annes Rd, left onto St. Patricks Rd, then left onto Withworth road.
Drumcondra road has a new median now, and the right turn into town would be easier from Whitworth road, where the lights are already.

Yep, makes sense.

I personally believe BAC should be allowed to access the Luas lines and stops the same as buses do in Munich

Ditto, I say the same about the Jervis/Abbey Street bus station to Capel Street.

[Colm Donoghue]

I'd say trying to get the 'Cage demolished would get the literati and the salafian types on you. Sean O Casey mentions it a bit in his work/drank there.

Drumcondra needs a bit of green area CPO'd/taken from St Patricks teaching college, so the bus lane can run continuously .
There is a large gap between stops millmount house to home farm road, so a "Third changable buslane " in the centre lane could be used, changing direction from morning to evening.

One last point about routing townshend st, westland row, merrion square is the distance to walk from the CBD to a bus route. It's a long way from Georges st to Merrion square for shoppers

[Thomas J Stamp]

I'd say trying to get the 'Cage demolished would get the literati and the salafian types on you

more to the point the family firm out the roof on it in the 80's - before they went to wall.

One last point about routing townshend st, westland row, merrion square is the distance to walk from the CBD to a bus route. It's a long way from Georges st to Merrion square for shoppers

I'm not in favour of that routing at all, in fact AFAIK BAC sends the 48a and that down that routing and the result is every bus is packed leaving the terminus and parked buses clog up the quayss.

[Donal Quinn]

RE cat and cage

from what i remember it's not the cat and cage that sticks out so much as a chunk of wall from St. Pats on the other side of the road. It's green behind that wall so i can't imagine that it would be too hard to move it back 3 or 4 metres

[alek smart]

Good to see there is still a level of enthusiasm for my initial suggestion re Bus/Train interactivity at Drumcondra.
In spite of a fairly total lack of any interest from either BAC or IE in this concept I believe it offers the possibility of a HUGE improvement in Customer Service terms for Bus and Rail commuters.
The extra capacity on the City Centre-Drumcondra sector alone would be highly marketable without starting on the Bus/Rail attractions.
I also believe that my suggested routing FROM Parnell Sq via Mountjoy SQ and Belvedere Place OR via Fitzgibbon St-Jones Rd-Clonliffe Rd offers some respite from the never ending and unhealthy fixation with O Connell St which appears to pervade all BAC route structuring.
I believe that there are Plenty of customers on our Buses who are being trundled along and deposited on O Connell St who do NOT want to be there but who have no alternative offered to them.
Sadly however,until the Drumcondra Interchange Concept gets a powerful benefactor I suspect it will die the death of a thousand whispers.
It is all to obvious that neither Bus nor Rail company view the Public Transport Market as something requiring REAL integration and until some central and POWERFUL entity actually forces the concept through then we can forget it.
Once again I stress the simplicity of this concept which would require minimal expenditure on infrastructure yet would have a cost/benefit level far greater than many of the "Sexy" T21 programmes and could be fully operational within 6 MONTHS....Anybody prepared to back this horse ..????

[Thomas J Stamp]

I'd back it. Perhaps when we have our next meeting it ought to on the ajenda (however it's spelt). We need a nice, simple, easy campaign. The Drumcondra Interchange really cant be faulted, its a simple good idea.

[Mark Gleeson]

Its simple stuff and with the metro underneath hopefully it could really shine

Still Glasnevin Junc could be a location to implement this thinking as well

[alek smart]

Yes indeed Mark,Glasnevin Junction could still tick most of the boxes in respect of Bus/Rail integration.

Perhaps in the context of this a GJ interchange could be adopted as a possible "Upsleeve" alternative should the Cerebral one`s manage to find enough "Negative Aspects" to the DrumC proposal.

The issue of total cost vs projected improvement in service level and satisfaction is the major factor for me.

The present inefficient and impractical terminus arrangements on Mountjoy and Parnell Squares will have to be addressed in the short term anyway as DCC is set to get stuck-in to the Parnell Sq Area Improvement Programme within weeks.

My fear however is that this enforced construction disruption will merely see more Termini stuffed up to Mountjoy Square and an even greater level of queuing along Denmark St as the routes all try to access Parnell Sq East on the "return" leg.

Yet again I recently walked along by the New Jurys Inn at Croke Park and took note of the lack of public transport provision along this entire corridor which includes the increasingly popular GAA museum.

If one takes a look at an overhead pic (Cue the Image Editor.....) of the North Circular/Jones Rd/Clonliffe Rd area one views a somewhat densly populated area where Public Transport Users are required to hoof it to get from Bus/Train to front door,whilst large-capacity buses terminate on a largely non-resedential City Square.

The new "Peripheral" service debate has,thus far concentrated on the M50 corridor issue.
In the same manner as the rabbit caught in the glare of the headlights we are transfixed by this Golden Ring known as the M 50.
The reality of providing an improved Bus service (Which SHOULD in turn lead to greater utilization of an IMPROVED Rail Service) should be recognizing how Dublin City has several Micro-Peripheral zones which currently are being ignored.

For example.
1 Fairview-Parnell St-Bolton St-King St-Smithfield-Heuston Stn.

2.Glasnevin Jct-Phibsboro-Broadstone-Bolton St-Parnell St-Wolfe Tone St-Bachelors Walk-Custom House Quay-Sherriff St International (!!).

The above are but 2 routings which while not complete ROUTES could,either totally or in part be incorporated into Rail-Complimentary services.

The salient point remains that some strong level of Traffic Management would be required to ensure the smooth operation of the services and this remains the achilles heel of ANY Bus Service Improvements in Dublin.

Still if P11`s committee can at least discuss and refine such Bus/Rail plans it has to be worth the effort.
Remember the single most threatening thing to Dublins Traffic and Transport establishment is being forced to acknowledge the existance of other,often simpler and better concieved,Public Transport ideas.(Especially if these are being promoted by people who don`t even play Golf)

[Thomas J Stamp]

In any other country a city which has several identifiable road rings would be busy explioting their potential. BAC sort of does that with the 17's and the 75, and the one that goes from Palmersotwn to Sandymount thus ignoring the potential of the NCR and SCR as well as Griffith and Collins avenue on the northside and the other identifiable corridors on the southside. EG why no bus from Lucan to Dun Laoire?

I know that due to the nature of the layout of the city that each of these buses lose priority every time they cross either a N route or anything else going north/south, but agains this is sortable.

We have identified some solutions on this topic, and indeed attemtped to intgrate the metro north and the two east west rail lines on the northside. Have any of you native southsiders got solutions for down there?

As for me, I am now embarking on drawing up plans for the next prime surburban inter-modal interchange station, Ballybrophy, given the relentless expansion of the Dublin surburbs.