[Articles] DART Underground

[Mark Gleeson]

This guy had spoken to us and we very clearly stated the Interconnector was the only show in town, Park Tunnel only really came into its own when the Interconnector was built

The numbers are interesting 2,000 per hour vs 30,000 per hour, its an easy choice

[Peter1966]

The lads on the www.archiseek.com forum were critical of Ruadhan Mac Eoin's article in the Sunday Times and he has (well it appears to be him) signed up and posted a reply:
http://archiseek.com/content/showthr...?t=6803&page=6

I'm just an average punter, but his plan seems hair-brained to me. I can't see how it would be much use. Would be very grateful if anyone here could shed more light on the subject...

[Mark Hennessy]

Hey Peter,

This page has a lot of information on the project:

http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/extendthedart/

[Peter1966]

I had read the info on http://www.railusers.ie/campaigns/extendthedart/
It's all good stuff and a compelling case is made for the underground interconnector - which I am strongly in favour of.

I am worried about Ruadhan Mac Eoin's idea of using the Pheonix Park Tunnel instead of buliding the underground interconnector. It's strikes me that his scheme would be inadequate due to:

1. Lack of capacity
2. Slow train speeds
3. Lack of integration
4. No service to the Dublin 2 area.
5. Still a two track from Inchicore to Heuston

Can anybody provide some facts and figures to flesh it out ?

i.e. Under Mac Eoin's scheme:
What would the additional journey time be to get from Parkwest to Spencer Dock ?
How many less passengers and trains per hour could the line from Parkwest to Spencer Dock accomodate ? I noted that Mark says 2,000 vs. 30,000 - is that the PPT route (2,000) vs. the Underground Interconncetor (30,000) ?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Peter1966

I noted that Mark says 2,000 vs. 30,000 - is that the PPT route (2,000) vs. the Underground Interconncetor (30,000) ?

Yup

The park tunnel really can only be used to its maximum after the interconnector and let us be clear it must be used. But it cannot match the interconnector tunnel in terms of capacity, journey times or connectivity

Inchicore to St Stephen's Green would be 10 minutes up to 16 times an hour

Park West to Docklands by interconnector by about 15 minutes via the Park Tunnel be somewhere in the bracket of about 25 minutes plus

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...261353133.html

Dart line to be split to make way for underground
OLIVIA KELLY

DUBLIN’S DART line, which has carried passengers from Howth to Bray for 25 years, is to be severed following construction of the Dart Underground, Iarnród Éireann has confirmed.

The company will next March seek a railway order to construct the new Dart line, which will run underground from the Docklands to Heuston Station and Inchicore via St Stephen’s Green.

The underground line, due to open in 2015, will result in the current north-south Dart line being split in two.

Currently Dart trains run from Howth on the north coast of Dublin to Greystones, south of Bray, Co Wicklow, with city centre stops at Connolly, Tara Street and Pearse stations.

Once the underground line is built, passengers travelling from the north side will no longer have direct access to Connolly or Tara Street stations. Their Dart will run as normal to Clontarf Road, but will then enter a tunnel at East Wall and continue to underground stations at Docklands, Pearse, St Stephen’s Green, Christchurch, Heuston, and emerging at a surface station at Inchicore.

Passengers heading south will have to change at Pearse to return to the current Dart route.

Southside passengers travelling into the city will still have access to Pearse, Tara Street and Connolly stations. However, after passing through Connolly, their train will turn west, through Drumcondra and out to Maynooth in Co Kildare. To head north on the current Dart line, they also will have to change at Pearse Station.

Presenting the proposed lines to a recent meeting of Dublin city councillors, Dart underground project manager Peter Muldoon said the severing of the current Dart line would not affect journey times.

“If you are going from one side of the city to the other, you will have to change trains; just like every other major city. We hope to have one train every five or six minutes, so the time from leaving your house to arriving at work will not be adversely affected,” he added.

Capacity constraints at Connolly Station meant it was not feasible to construct the underground line from Connolly to Heuston stations and preserve the existing north-south Dart line.

“We have a major capacity problem with the tracks coming into Dublin,” Mr Muldoon said. “There are a huge number of tracks coming into Connolly and only one track coming out.”

The current line capacity at Connolly meant that extra trains could not be added to improve the frequency of the service, he said. The changes would allow a far greater number of trains to move through the city and would ensure passengers had a fully integrated public transport system, which brought them quickly to their destinations.

“This proposal takes people where they want to go – the Docklands and the south inner city. Merely transferring people between Heuston and Connolly doesn’t take people where they want to go,” Mr Muldoon said.

Iarnród Éireann will begin a new round of public consultation on the line and the proposed stations in the new year before it seeks a railway order, for permission to undertake the project, next March.

[karlr42]

This article does a disserrvice to the underground project- it could be phrased in a better light as creating a new DART line, which is what it is doing.

[Mark Gleeson]

Slow news day indeed.

It once again exposes the inability of Irish Rail to actually communicate clearly with the public as to the scope and impact of what is proposed

Under the current plans you could have Maynooth-Hazelhatch and Balbriggan-Bray if you wanted, in fact it will be built such that such would be possible for non service trains, but in use it doesn't make sense

The logic behind the two routes is sound and provides the maximum level of integration and ensures you can get from any rail (or metro) station in Dublin to any other with at most a single change,.

[ThomasJ]

It does raise a question that given this very point has been mentioned in the twenty or so articles the irish times have written about the interconnector why highlight it now.

Slow news day indeed and waste of space on the paper. Advertisements would have been more constructive.

[Oisin88]

RTE ran with it as well: http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1229/1ne...75006,null,230
Noot quite what is says on the tin though.

[losexpectation]

it gets worse

dart-row-is-brewing-over-plan-to-split-routes
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/d...s-1992896.html

[James Shields]

Where has this come from? They're hardly all copying the Times. There must be somebody behind this story. It seems to take every positive point about the Interconnector and twist it to highlight the downsides.

For example,

The plan is controversial because passengers coming from the northside will no longer have the same luxuries as those travelling from the southside, which will still have the same city centre stops.

Are these the same stations I travel through - I don't think there's much about Connolly and Tara St that could be described as "luxury". More to the point, it completely fails to mention that north side passengers will have new city centre stops at Stephen's Green and Christchurch, something I expect many south side passengers will be envious of.

[markpb]

Originally Posted by James Shields

Where has this come from? They're hardly all copying the Times. There must be somebody behind this story. It seems to take every positive point about the Interconnector and twist it to highlight the downsides.

A cynic would suggest the government are softening up the beachhead for an attempt to delay or stop work on the IC.

[ACustomer]

For heaven's sake, no need of conspiracy theories.

1. Lazy journalists just copy one another all the time
2. People who might lose out (i.e commuters from Malahide to Blackrock) will kick up a fuss, and those who might gain get left out of the argument. Typical of this country: again happens all the time.

[Oisin88]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

2. People who might lose out (i.e commuters from Malahide to Blackrock) will kick up a fuss, and those who might gain get left out of the argument. Typical of this country: again happens all the time.

You could hardly call it "missing out." The Malahide DARTs will be serving Stephen's Green!
I agree, people here, even when they don't have it cushy, prefer to stick with what they have instead of improving things for others.

[Jack O'Neill]

Originally Posted by ACustomer

For heaven's sake, no need of conspiracy theories.

1. Lazy journalists just copy one another all the time
2. People who might lose out (i.e commuters from Malahide to Blackrock) will kick up a fuss, and those who might gain get left out of the argument. Typical of this country: again happens all the time.

I agree - 'twas a pity the headline didn't read...

"Dart line to be doubled to make way for underground "

Just aggro stirring in the newsroom - everyone and more gains with the Interconnector

[essoII]

The procurement process for the DART Underground rail project has commenced with the publication today of a notice in the Official Journal of the European Union (OJEU) informing interested parties of the project and inviting market soundings from participants.

It is the first major phase in what is set to be a year of major significance in the development of DART Underground, with the application for a Railway Order also due to be lodged next month.

DART Underground will run underground through the heart of Dublin City Centre. The tunnel will be approximately 7.6 Km in length and will connect the Northern & Kildare rail lines, with underground stations at Docklands, Pearse, St. Stephen’s Green, Christchurch and Heuston as well as a new surface station at Inchicore.

It will, for the first time, link all rail systems together into an integrated and cohesive network – DART, Commuter, Intercity, Luas and Metro.

With capacity for DART services to operate up to every 3 minutes, DART Underground will complete the transformation of the Greater Dublin Area’s rail service capacity from 33 million passenger journeys annually now to over 100 million passenger journeys. The project is a central part of the Government’s Transport 21 investment plan and will be the single most important piece of infrastructure in the state to ensure a modal shift from private to public transport.



Procurement – Periodic Indicative Notice

The DART Underground Project will be procured as a public private partnership (PPP), and the publication in the OJEU of the Periodic Indicative Notice (PIN) is the first stage of the competitive process to select a private partner for its delivery.

The PIN informs interested parties, such as potential contractors, of the proposed scope and duration of the PPP contract. It also states that DART Underground intends to publish a Contract Notice in the Official Journal of the EU in the second quarter of 2010, which will set out a process to pre-qualify potential private partners who will be invited to tender and negotiate for award of the PPP contract through a competitive process.

Under the PPP contract the successful private partner will be responsible for the design, construction, financing, commissioning, operation and maintenance of the tunnel, stations and associated facilities over the period of the PPP contract. At this stage, the contract is envisaged to last for between 25 and 35 years, including the design and construction stages. In return the private partner will receive an annual availability and performance based payment.

Iarnród Éireann will at all times retain responsibility for the operation of DART services through the tunnel, which will be handed back to Iarnród Éireann at the end of the concession period. The PIN also alerts interested parties, principally potential contractors, to Iarnród Éireann’s market sounding exercise.

Interested parties who register their interest will receive the DART Underground Market Consultation brochure, which includes a questionnaire and invites views on the scope and procurement of the contract. Replies are due by 4 March 2010. In the interim Iarnród Éireann has prepared a reference design to support its application for a Railway Order at the end of March 2010.

By addressing regulatory and planning issues early in the procurement process, Iarnród Éireann expects to provide greater certainty to its stakeholders, bidders and funders as to safety, cost and the potential to attract significant private finance.

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/...ew&news_id=641

[sean]

So we're doing this with a PPP wonder what kind of premium that's going add. Still, I guess it's something.

[Colm Moore]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...265093538.html

Opposition to Inchicore Dart plan

FRANK McDONALD Environment Editor

RESIDENTS OF the historic Railway Estate in Inchicore, Dublin, claimed yesterday they were being “railroaded” by Iarnród Éireann’s plan for a Dart underground link between Heuston station and the Docklands area.

John Beck, chairman of Inchicore on Track, the residents’ new campaign group, said the plan – to cost €2 billion – was being “pushed through without any proper consultation”.

“The Iarnród Éireann plan will see the heritage estate, ironically built for railway workers in the 1840s, turned into Dublin’s largest 24-hour a day construction site. At its centre there will be a hole the size of a football pitch,” he said.

Inchicore on Track commissioned London-based tunnelling consultants OTB Engineering to review the proposal, which would involve excavating the local football pitch to provide an entry point for the tunnel boring machines.

The report recommends relocating the construction works a few hundred metres to an Iarnród Éireann works site, saying it would be “completely unreasonable” for the construction to be carried out in a residential area.

A spokesman for Iarnród Éireann said the site for the tunnel portal in Inchicore had been selected to avoid demolition of any houses, that the construction work would be temporary, and that local people would benefit from having a new station.

[weehamster]

I just wondering what are the view points of members here about inchicore. Are the residents right or is it just all hot air by a few. Could it get nasty and cause a major delay in the project?