Disruption in Cork

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Colm R

Here we go again!!!

And here I go again!

Its time for an independent inquiry into the companies human resources policy. How many friggin times do I have to say it? This is the rep org, go rep and stop sittin on the fence. The committee are loaded with evidence. The company is an industrial relations mess and one man is fuelling it. I see him everyday.

Sometimes I baffled by the lack of understanding on this forum. Its not rocket science. Even the minister is in denial about it all. Yet the poor and often provocative management are the golden boys. I'll drop back in a few days to see how Ive been castigated, ignored or banned for saying that RUI have been shamefully weak and visionless on this issue. Its about customers. They suffer. Full stop. Regular and growing unrest in IE needs to be investigated. The secrecy must end. Compile the facts and take it to the media.

[dowlingm]

I hate it when you hold back Derek, tell us what you really think

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Very few trains in the fleet have dual controls, no railcar has them and the second seat on older locomotives has no speedometer or cab signalling display on the off side console.

How do other systems like NIR/UKTOCS handle driver training?

[Mark Gleeson]

Exact same as here, except specially trained senior instructor drivers supervise the trainee. Normally the driver standards manager is in charge. UK never had dual control cabs to start with.

Irish Rail now seem to put any random driver in charge regardless of experience, which contradicts the agreed plans to have specific trained drivers for the purpose, any driver wishing to carry out the task applies for the job, its not given automatically. There are mentor drivers in Inchicore and Connolly but none in Cork.

The issue at hand is who is responsible and the various documents we have seen are not clear as to the qualifications of the supervising driver and responsibility in the event of an incident. With the advent of a penalty points, official certification of drivers and increased emphasis on safety, no one is willing to put their job on the line. There is no problem with a trainee traveling in the cab, its the trainee driving.

Full service is operating in Cork currently to the 2007 timetable, so what is ongoing currently is not impacting services yet.

We have very little interest in the underlying reasons for the disruption. The passenger on the ground, they don't care. What we are interested in is failure of Irish Rail management to provide the service as agreed, failure to notify the public in good time of alterations, failure to promptly reimburse those effected and so on. The key issue is since Irish Rail management are answerable to no one there is no motivation on them to provide a service in a professional manner.

[MrX]

Well, given that they're ultimately responsible to the Minister for Transport and given that he has allowed this situation to occur and reoccur we really should be calling for his immediate resignation. He's obviously incapable of dealing with CIE and specifically with the issues that are going on at Iarnrod Eireann.

Regardless of what the internal problems are within Irish Rail, passengers are being seriously inconvenienced and it's damaging the reliability of the public transport system.

All the shiny new trains and stations in the world won't make the slightest bit of difference if the company that's operating them is so incompetent that between them they can't manage to agree a drivers roster!

Something must change a.s.a.p. and I really think it's about time the minister felt the heat on this one. He's not taking any responsibility for it. I know the CIE Unions and the whole HR issue within CIE companies are political hot potatoes that no one wants to touch, but it's about time that someone did something about it. The current situation is totally unacceptable. It can only be resolved through deep changes within CIE and a whole cultural shift out of the 19th century. This union vs management and management vs union stand off situation is simply nuts in this day and age. The management structures are clearly harking back to the Victorian era.

[Mark Hennessy]

Originally Posted by MrX

Well, given that they're ultimately responsible to the Minister for Transport and given that he has allowed this situation to occur and reoccur we really should be calling for his immediate resignation. He's obviously incapable of dealing with CIE and specifically with the issues that are going on at Iarnrod Eireann.

Agree totally but this is a large issue with government in this country as a whole. Not one politician will take responsibility for their brief.

[Colm Moore]

Interestingly the DTA bill includes a section where a minister can direct a transport authourity (Irish Rail is listed as one) to settle a trade dispute.

I wonder what the current provisions are.

[Mark Gleeson]

Since all services are by service level agreement and contract, if IE don't provide bye bye they can ditch them and run it themselves

[Derek Wheeler]

The above film epitomises industrial relations in Irish Rail. It was made in 1971!!!

Seriously, watch it and laugh at how similar it is to our national rail operator in terms of unions Vs management.

CARRY ON RAILWAY

Dick Fearn as W.C. Boggs
Barry Kenny as Sid Plummer
and some train driver as Vic Spanner.

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

We have very little interest in the underlying reasons for the disruption. The passenger on the ground, they don't care. What we are interested in is failure of Irish Rail management to provide the service as agreed, failure to notify the public in good time of alterations, failure to promptly reimburse those effected and so on. The key issue is since Irish Rail management are answerable to no one there is no motivation on them to provide a service in a professional manner.

Did you read that after you typed it Mark? May I translate?

I assume "we" refers to RUI. RUI assume that passengers don't care about the reasons. (Im in part agreement so far)
RUI are interested in IEs failure to provide a service as agreed with the DOT. (fair enough. no problems there.) But you claim that IE aren't answerable to anyone. Well thats true. But if they are renegades and the minister is indifferent and lacking any power and the representation body (RUI) is only interested in IEs failure, can you not see the paradox?

Ive put my cards on the table in relation to this issue, whats RUIs stance? And yes Mark this is a legitimate question devoid of abuse and I'd appreciate an answer.

[Mark Hennessy]

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

But if they are renegades and the minister is indifferent and lacking any power and the representation body (RUI) is only interested in IEs failure, can you not see the paradox?

Highlighting the Minsters failure to deal with this situation is not the same as hoping IE fail and cause misery for the passengers.
I fail to see how you can make the assumption quoted above.

Are you not in agreement, that this Cork fiasco must be sorted in the short term to avoid prolonged passenger grief or are you more than happy to see the staus quo?

Because if it is the former, it is going to take more than the current participants to sort it and you know that.

[MrX]

Well, the minister is ultimately politically responsible and cares about his reputation as does his party.

CIE / Iarnrod Eireann are not going to really bother reacting if any lobby group puts them under pressure other than their own unions.

I mean, why would they they're a state-owned monopoly and live in a protected little bubble.

I really think the minister needs to 'feel the heat' on this issue in a big way every time there's disruption RUI ought to be calling for his head on a plate. He's the only person who can do what's necessary to sort this situation out.

All he's doing is ignoring the situation / passing the buck or hoping it will go away. CIE isn't going to fix itself! The problems we're facing as passengers are the result of decades of mismanagement and decades of turning a blind eye to it by every minister for transport who's held that office since pretty much the foundation of the state!

[Mark Gleeson]

The minister is never going to take responsibility, the corporate governance situation is such that the 'day to day' operations are entirely the companies issue, the minister has no say.

I've said it numerous times on radio and in interviews with various journalists what we need is a contractual arrangement where failure to provide the service results in serious consequences. At the moment Irish Rail have an infinite overdraft management don't care if the whole show shuts down for 3 months. You can be very sure if the DOT pulled the funding plug the day trains stop you would see a very different approach inside Irish Rail to providing the service since the management team would simply be replaced by company like Veoila

Current agreement is DoT signs cheques, Irish Rail fabricate a statistics process (different to the charter) which always results in a positive image ignoring the common standards across Europe. There is no legal standing so the DoT have no power

I pay my money to Irish Rail with a reasonable expectation that the timetabled service is provided, the ultimate responsibility always rests with management to provide this, if they can't then someone else needs to take over