[article] €2bn rail link to go ahead despite working 'ghost line'

[eugene]

Think we have discussed this a fair bit now. How about writing a letter into the Indo with a clarification of the RUI position?

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by eugene

Think we have discussed this a fair bit now. How about writing a letter into the Indo with a clarification of the RUI position?

Our position is on the website. As ever, our official position on anything is on the website, what appears elsewhere (even on this forum) consists of indvidual opinions.

What is interesting is that BK has pulled yet another rabbit out of the hat for opposing the PPT being used - even on a temp basis.

Step forward the good people of Navan. Yes, you can look forward to trains from Navan going to Docklands, Connolly and Broadstone according to IE in recent times. Now, considering that IE top brass think the people of Kildare are frankly too thick to know that a train to Pearse on a Sunday is different to one to Heuston on a Monday you have to hand it to the teachers in schools in Meath that IE judges them bright enough to not collapse into a heap of jelly when faced with three (count them) possible destinations.

Oh, not to mention the old "It'll take and hour to get from Heuston to Connolly" line fron BK last night. First, its simply not true - for it to take an hour means pulling into one of the internal platforms, unloading, pulling out, switching over onto the correct track and heading off again, with a similar movement into Connolly. We're not advocating that and BK knows it. Second - we're talking about Docklands not Connolly. Third - any proper organisation would be ashamed to admit on air that it could take an hour for them to do that journey, IE seem to wear it as a badge of honour. Odd.

Maybe, understandably, Barry is concerned that the destination displays on trains that sue the tunnell will display somthing like Dundalk, Rosslare or Nenagh.

At the end of the day we are in a unique window of opportunity. The last time there was a similar committment to rail transport was in the 1840's-1890's. After 2020 there is a fair chance that we will never see as much committment in our lifetimes. This is a fairly simple additional project that can be put in place fairly easily - compaired to it's big brother on the southside. IE should seek whatever funding is needed to be included as part of the DART underground package and start it asap.

Its all very well for Barry Kenny to glibly chuck the burden on BAC and Luas ("We'll work in conjuction with them" lol) our figures show an extra 9000 px due to the KRP, a figure that Luas and BAC cannot possibly hope to shift. Diverting two trains to Docklands removes several thousand and is the most positive contribution that IE can make in "working in conjunction" with Luas and BAC. The reality is that this will offer a choice of services to commuters, those who take that choice will increase capacity (Barry's big word last night) on the trains that dont go that route. Consequently, it increases comfort and convience levels for those on all services.

In the coming decade a lot of the remaining impediments to driving into the city may well be gone - Newlands Cross traffic lights, M50 upgrade, outer ring road, outer orbital motorway not to mention Luas lines and Metro. IE need to wake up and smell the coffee. Capacity is a good thing to worry about when there is no realistic alternative. When there is a proper selection of alternatives in place IE may suddenly realise they dont have capacity problems anymore......

[eugene]

Thanks for that, clears things up for me.

[James Shields]

P11/RUI have always pushed for the PPT to be used, because it made sense, and it still does. We later pushed for the Interconnector because it makes sense too. Both are needed, but the Interconnector will take 8+ years to build, si why not use what's available now?

Connolly may be at capacity (although Mark has shown otherwise) but there is an unused platform at Docklands that could be connected to the Drumcondra line by a small piece of trackwork, and could be ready well before the KRP. It would be quite easy to terminate 4 tph there, if there was the will to do so.

[Mark]

The nerve of Kenny calling us schizophrenics! Ha I nearly crashed the car laughing.

[paddyb180285]

Trains could also be sent further afield to Dun Laoghaire or Bray to fill in gaps present in the timetable. From the Phoenix Park Tunnel, they could call at Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse, Grand Canal Dock, Sydney Parade, Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey and Bray. Then, these stations would be revisited on the way back to the Phoenix Park Tunnel. This could serve for uping the frequency of trains to Galway or Limerick were higher frequency is needed. Especially Galway with its popular college reputation and lively city. I know Connolly and Pearse are running out of space. However, Grand Canal Dock could be used. If that runs at capacity, use Dun Laoghaire. If that runs at Capacity, use Bray.

[Mark Gleeson]

Connolly is off the agenda and always has been, Docklands is the destination of choice, except on weekends

Line south of Pearse is running at design capacity

[MOH]

Originally Posted by Mark

The nerve of Kenny calling us schizophrenics! Ha I nearly crashed the car laughing.

Is Barry Kenny real? Or is he just a robot spouting lines fed to him? Does he even listen to what he says?

Assuming that the interconnector will cost as least 1.3 billion, the statement

Connolly station is at full capacity at peak times, and using the park tunnel in this way would not generate any additional commuter capacity in the greater Dublin area. Kildare services could not serve Heuston without an additional platform and track work being provided there, and could not serve docklands without track modifications at a multi-million euro cost."

doesn't really make any sense. Surely additional work at Heuston and Docklands, while being a multi-million cost, wouldn't be a 2000-million cost?

[Mark Gleeson]

Total cost Heuston end

1 crossover = 2 sets of points
1 signal
Re program the Heuston #1 SSI module to note change

For 2 trains an hour each way current platform 10 is fine

About 1.25 million

Total cost Docklands end (assume we get expensive)

1 replace double junction on Maynooth line at West Rd (will be done regardless)
1 crossover = 2 sets of points in the south end of dip
1 set of points at Docklands at platform 1
1 add junction indicator on signal end P1
1 flat crossing with Midland/North Wall line
Buy lump of shed
Re program Docklands SSI module

About 7 million

All in cost of about 8.25 million so lets say 10 million

IE we allocated 60 million for Docklands they spent 36 million

It ain't a perfect solution but its a solution which eases the pressure while the interconnector built and post interconnector could be a useful commuter link for Heuston/Cabra/Liffey Junction Luas/Metro, note North London line extension on London same kind of thing

[CSL]

I hear a clock ticking re destruction of Docklands station in the background ....

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by CSL

I hear a clock ticking re destruction of Docklands station in the background ....

Sad but true by the looks of it 15 services daily until new timetable down to 12 then and a large gap between a number of services an incredible waste of a station with 2 platforms.

[Mark Gleeson]

Well even under full planned service Docklands only gets 4 train in and 4 trains out per peak hour. As Tom has pointed out its musical chairs with Navan the ultimate arse coverage routine to suit IE

One platform alone is enough for the Pace service, note Cobh only has one and it does fine, so the second platform is lying idle and all we want is 2 trains an hour which leaves significant spare capacity to allow a margin on the planned 4 trains per hour

Platform in Docklands is perfectly able to take a Mk3 push pull set, the core of the Kildare peak hour service, strangely IE are going to scrap them in 2009 so there are trains to run the service

Its a long time till 2015

IE management should reread there statement on ethics
http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/about_u..._of_ethics.asp

[ThomasJ]

out of interest mark have you seen any reports from IE justifying the reopening of broadstone? any idea what their business case is?

[Mark Gleeson]

I will know more about Broadstone shortly doubt there is a business case for it

[ThomasJ]

Sorry for dragging it a bit off-topic the only reason I asked about it was I thought Docklands was for pace and navan and kildare services and when they were mentioning Broadstone in context to navan services, I thought it was not a good move!