coolmine station,early train, 50 euro fine - Page 2

Mark Gleeson · 26-03-2007, 20:26

Its a offence to give false details, bear in mind the train has digital CCTV

Andy we want to be helpful by providing as much background and reference relevant to the situation. I'm not a lawyer just someone who knows the relevant rules well and knows a few get out clauses, I'm trying to tease out the information to see if there is anything useful

If there are others out there and I know there are who feel wrongly done by, there is a chance a small chance that we might be able to shed new light on the situation which might result in a better outcome. We eagerly await the day when someone contacts us and we find IE have no case.

There signs IE have up about you must have a ticket are misleading if the booking office is closed you have the right to travel provided you pay at the first oppertunity, either on train or at destination. Note you are not legally obliged to use the TVM, we recommend you do but if it can't issue the ticket you want what choice do you have?

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 20:46

I understand that and apologise for implying I or anyone else on this forum would condone any such wrongdoing. I do realise trains have cctv, I was merely pointing out a hypothetical,if somewhat immoral, loophole to the new crackdown on fare evasion.
I also have a twin brother and could always accuse him of the infringement,we're identical, I'm sure they wouldnt be bothered trying to chase him up for the offence, but to be honest I'm just so inscensed I'd rather just fight it. The bureaucratical angle that is being used to deny each and every person the benefit of the doubt is sickening. There is no leeway, there is no excuses, they just want 50 euro and thats that. I'm sorry if I seem a little irrational about this subject, but to be screwed over by a company that you give money to tirelessly is quite disheartening.

Mark Gleeson · 26-03-2007, 21:03

You are right to be pissed off the early train shouldn't have happened and you have a wedge to use against Irish Rail in any protest as a result. Irish Rail are famous for there understanding nature so you can see why I'm not so positive that you will get off. They have been known to knock the fine down to €25 from time to time, its important to use the correct lingo, that train leaving early broke three separate things, it broke the conditions of carriage, the customer charter and the memorandum of agreement with the DoT

Its black and white to them, boarded staffed station no ticket and we have to be realistic

I'll give the booth a try tomorrow and see how it goes... I'll be legal just see how they react and if they try anything well I'll report in

packetswitch · 26-03-2007, 21:12

Much as I'd like to encourage the challenging of silly decisions, "if they bring me to court and I win, they pay my legal fees...anyone know if this is the case?" isn't reliable:

a) the payment of fees is essentially a feature of private law (i.e. if I sue you for negligence and win you may be told to pay my fees), and
b) it's never a guarantee anyway.

If you 'win' you are essentially getting a verdict of 'not guilty' which rarely involves the payment of fees (aside from if you're already on legal aid etc).

If you are the plaintiff suing someone, you *may* get your costs awarded but it's not an entitlement.

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 21:15

thanks mark, and again sorry if i seem a bit abrasive. My mind doesnt work in the bureaucratic black and white rules and regulations nature so i tend to try and build arguments around reason and circumstance. Thanks for listenin.

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by packetswitch

Much as I'd like to encourage the challenging of silly decisions, "if they bring me to court and I win, they pay my legal fees...anyone know if this is the case?" isn't reliable:

a) the payment of fees is essentially a feature of private law (i.e. if I sue you for negligence and win you may be told to pay my fees), and
b) it's never a guarantee anyway.

If you 'win' you are essentially getting a verdict of 'not guilty' which rarely involves the payment of fees (aside from if you're already on legal aid etc).

If you are the plaintiff suing someone, you *may* get your costs awarded but it's not an entitlement.

well i cant reall afford the 50 euro fine so i reckon it'll be legal aid....hahahahaha

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26-03-2007, 20:26	#21
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Its a offence to give false details, bear in mind the train has digital CCTV Andy we want to be helpful by providing as much background and reference relevant to the situation. I'm not a lawyer just someone who knows the relevant rules well and knows a few get out clauses, I'm trying to tease out the information to see if there is anything useful If there are others out there and I know there are who feel wrongly done by, there is a chance a small chance that we might be able to shed new light on the situation which might result in a better outcome. We eagerly await the day when someone contacts us and we find IE have no case. There signs IE have up about you must have a ticket are misleading if the booking office is closed you have the right to travel provided you pay at the first oppertunity, either on train or at destination. Note you are not legally obliged to use the TVM, we recommend you do but if it can't issue the ticket you want what choice do you have?

26-03-2007, 20:46	#22
andyl222 Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 55	I understand that and apologise for implying I or anyone else on this forum would condone any such wrongdoing. I do realise trains have cctv, I was merely pointing out a hypothetical,if somewhat immoral, loophole to the new crackdown on fare evasion. I also have a twin brother and could always accuse him of the infringement,we're identical, I'm sure they wouldnt be bothered trying to chase him up for the offence, but to be honest I'm just so inscensed I'd rather just fight it. The bureaucratical angle that is being used to deny each and every person the benefit of the doubt is sickening. There is no leeway, there is no excuses, they just want 50 euro and thats that. I'm sorry if I seem a little irrational about this subject, but to be screwed over by a company that you give money to tirelessly is quite disheartening.

26-03-2007, 21:03	#23
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	You are right to be pissed off the early train shouldn't have happened and you have a wedge to use against Irish Rail in any protest as a result. Irish Rail are famous for there understanding nature so you can see why I'm not so positive that you will get off. They have been known to knock the fine down to €25 from time to time, its important to use the correct lingo, that train leaving early broke three separate things, it broke the conditions of carriage, the customer charter and the memorandum of agreement with the DoT Its black and white to them, boarded staffed station no ticket and we have to be realistic I'll give the booth a try tomorrow and see how it goes... I'll be legal just see how they react and if they try anything well I'll report in

26-03-2007, 21:12	#24
packetswitch Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 216	Much as I'd like to encourage the challenging of silly decisions, "if they bring me to court and I win, they pay my legal fees...anyone know if this is the case?" isn't reliable: a) the payment of fees is essentially a feature of private law (i.e. if I sue you for negligence and win you may be told to pay my fees), and b) it's never a guarantee anyway. If you 'win' you are essentially getting a verdict of 'not guilty' which rarely involves the payment of fees (aside from if you're already on legal aid etc). If you are the plaintiff suing someone, you may get your costs awarded but it's not an entitlement.

26-03-2007, 21:15	#25
andyl222 Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 55	thanks mark, and again sorry if i seem a bit abrasive. My mind doesnt work in the bureaucratic black and white rules and regulations nature so i tend to try and build arguments around reason and circumstance. Thanks for listenin.