Iarnród Éireann funding crisis puts lines at risk, report warns

[grainne whale]

Originally Posted by James Howard

While regular users used to get very reasonable deals on annual passes, this has gone up by 50% over the last 4 years. Since it's now down to about a 40% discount on 12 monthlies, that will be eroded entirely over the next 3 to 4 years at this rate.

I do think that on principle, you should be charged a bit extra to park a car at the station but for some stations enforcement costs must come pretty close to the revenue. By the time you've factored in the revenue lost this has to almost entirely absorb the income stream from parking.

My understanding is that Irish Rail get about a million euro a year from parking. This is the revenue gained from about 250 to 300 long-distance passes or about 40,000 day returns. I tend to encourage friends and neighbours to use the train when travelling to Dublin as it is so much easier than driving but the most common reason people give for driving aside from the train not going where they need to go is the parking charges.

4.50 on top of 25 euro for a journey than can be done on 20 euro of diesel tips the balance for a lot of people and makes it senseless to use the train if two people are travelling.

Yes I find the same, I always encourage friends/neighbours to use the train Celbridge/Hazelhatch to Dublin as it is far more pleasant than a bus journey, but again it's the parking charges that put them off, also the cost of 145/Luas is a factor. For them it's a no brainer, it's far easier to drive.

[Jamie2k9]

Now that would be an idea - free parking where stations 'are miles from anywhere' should be free - ie Hazelhatch/ Celbridge

I knew I should of been clearer in the first post!

Problem is Clondalkin carries next to no passengers because planned development didn't happen. The same case can't be made about Hazelhatch.

I'm sure free parking would help but it's a necessity at Clondalkin but not so much a problem at Hazelhatch.

[JohnnyBoy]

Can't see any reason why parking permits couldn't be issued to ticket holders. It wouldn't be that big of a technological feat to have ticket machines that could read travel tickets and issue parking tickets as well as taking cash.

[James Howard]

Unfortunately now that parking is established as a revenue it is very difficult for Irish Rail to give it up unless they have a clear business case showing that they will make more money without it. To do this, they would need to have lots of empty seats on trains leaving a station which are likely to be filled with fare-paying passengers if parking was made free.

It might be feasible to argue the case for some stations being made free where the cost of parking enforcement exceeds the revenue but I actually think they have given up on enforcement in a lot of places. I forgot to transfer the parking back from my wife's car for about 10 days recently while I left my car in Edgeworthstown without getting a ticket.

Maybe they are nice enough to recognise the regulars and not fine them but I'd think it more likely that they just aren't bothering with sending a van.

[grainne whale]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

I knew I should of been clearer in the first post!

Problem is Clondalkin carries next to no passengers because planned development didn't happen. The same case can't be made about Hazelhatch.

I'm sure free parking would help but it's a necessity at Clondalkin but not so much a problem at Hazelhatch.

If you commuted on that route you would notice that quite a few passengers use Clondalkin station. The car park at Hazelhatch is massive and only a quarter full - I wonder why

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBoy

Can't see any reason why parking permits couldn't be issued to ticket holders. It wouldn't be that big of a technological feat to have ticket machines that could read travel tickets and issue parking tickets as well as taking cash.

Taxsaver / annual ticket holders can get a parking ticket at a much reduced rate.

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/Taxsaver

[Underground]

Originally Posted by grainne whale

Yes I find the same, I always encourage friends/neighbours to use the train Celbridge/Hazelhatch to Dublin as it is far more pleasant than a bus journey, but again it's the parking charges that put them off, also the cost of 145/Luas is a factor. For them it's a no brainer, it's far easier to drive.

The next stop in, Adamstown, has free parking. The actual main carpark was never even finished!

[grainne whale]

Originally Posted by Underground

The next stop in, Adamstown, has free parking. The actual main carpark was never even finished!

It's really not easy to get to from Celbridge - the road network is not great - drive into Lucan and then up to Adamstown Station - if you drive that route - well you might as well just continue you journey by car.

[KSW]

Investment is needed badly on the Rosslare line. I took the 18.47 last night haven't took the train is over four years open return €29.50 and a single way which I purchased €20.50 train took exactly 2hrs just from Gorey to Connolly are they serious. I will go back to my regular Wexford Bus such a different of a €10 extra fare bus most times take 1hr20 I don't know how IE honestly expect passengers on their services when clearly 2hrs is an absolute joke. Not impressed by those 22k new trains the seats are so uncomfortable The old Mk3 trains had comfort. If IE ever want my custom they seriously need to look into cheaper fares and a lot more services

[Jamie2k9]

More details
http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1115/831...rnrod-eireann/

[ThomasJ]

report download link (quite big)

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-...ete_Online.pdf

[Jamie2k9]

The passenger data for 2015 shows that some IC/Commuter show record numbers (well 2006-2015 period).

Cork, Tralee, Limerick, Galway, Westport/Ballina, Kildare and Cork Commuter.

[Inniskeen]

Looks like this was thrown together in a mighty hurry with some very strange figures and rambling and irrelevant appendices. Some of the conclusions statements don't seem to correspond with the evidence.

Just one example that immediately stands out - Newry is included in the list of least used stations with 49 passengers in one direction and zero in the other ! How can these figures be correct ? Is this simply the number of passengers on the 0645 from Newry to Bray with nothing else counted ?

[comcor]

What is the justification for looking at the cost per passenger journey, rather than cost per passenger km?

[James Howard]

Makes for a more sensationalist headline?

[RPI]

I've glanced through the report and several things stand out:

1. There's no modelling of underlying demand patterns on any route. It could be that some routes are underperforming because current service patterns don't align with customer demand.

2. The report doesn't make the connection between signalling infrastructure and running costs on lines such as Limerick Junction - Waterford and Limerick - Ballybrophy.

3. There is no consideration of any alternative plan other than closure for lines which are underperforming.

4. IE appear to be overegging the pudding somewhat - I am surprised that the Kilkenny signalling already needs replacement while I would like to see how those electrification workers are doing on the Nenagh branch. Plus they aren't even utilising the correct cost metrics i.e. cost per passenger/km.

[Jamie2k9]

4. IE appear to be overegging the pudding somewhat - I am surprised that the Kilkenny signalling already needs replacement

I don't believe it was part of CTC replacement. All signals from Lavistown in were not replaced when CTC was been upgraded. Now saying that some signal heads have been replaced over last 12/18 months and other works.

Ironic thing is the section of signaling that fails most often is the Waterford West to Ballyhale or all the way to Lavistown South!

This is gas:

Dublin-Waterford also underperforms, partly due to the
stopping arrangements at Kilkenny, and permanent speed restrictions.

All InterCity trains travelling through Kilkenny should stop there

Hopefully IE have the scene to ignore!

[RPI]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Hopefully IE have the scene to ignore!

Another zinger is the relocation of Newry to the Republic and it's classification as one of the 25 least-used stations in the country.

[Jamie2k9]

Originally Posted by RPI

Another zinger is the relocation of Newry to the Republic and it's classification as one of the 25 least-used stations in the country.

Expect it was some form of oversite or the authors have never looked at a map of Ireland.
-----
Overall the report is very vage, no substance and all data was more less cut and paste from previous reports.

I fully expect Limerick J to Waterford to get shafted like Waterdord to Rosslare did. Its not something I can accept when IE and NTA both wash their hands of all responsiblity for its failings. The other lines have given the public chance after chance but nothing on this one.

As if WRC or Limerick to BB, who are they trying to kid. Don't see Rosslare getting the chop just not worth it.

[Inniskeen]

The rail review document is all over the place. Whst exactly is the relevance of the histotical list of closures ? From a first pass I see little evidence of strategic thinking or capacity planning (other than some discussions about rolling stock).

As regards lightly used lines, the entire reason for lack of business is conveniently down to lack of demand, no discussion of service quality or relevance. The service on the Wexford, Nenagh and Limerick/Waterford have either deteriorated dramatically or failed to adjust to circumstances. Most of the track and infrastructure on these routes has been upgraded but with little apparent strategic objective other than box ticking in respect of asset age and condition.

As for the inclusion of Newry, this is probably simply the one commuter service provided by Irish Rail !